User talk:Lugnuts/Archive 10

WikiProject Films March 2009 Newsletter

The March 2009 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. If you have an idea for improving the newsletter please leave a message on my talk page. Happy editing! --Nehrams2020 (talk) 00:11, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

A message from the lead coordinator

Hello and congratulations on being elected as a coordinator for WikiProject Films! As the lead coordinator, I look forward to helping set an agenda for the WikiProject for this term and beyond, and I hope that you will actively participate in working through our agenda's objectives. I ask you to take a moment and review the goals of WikiProject Films (listed on the WikiProject's front page and reiterated here):

• To standardize the film articles in Wikipedia
• To improve Wikipedia coverage of films by adding, expanding and improving film articles
• To serve as a central point of discussion for issues related to Wikipedia film articles
• To provide the necessary framework to assist in bringing all articles within the project scope to the highest possible quality

Since you have stepped forward to take on the responsibilities of the coordinator position, my expectations are for you to play an active role in most coordinator-related discussions and to bring new ideas to the circle whenever possible. Since all seven of us will collaborate in discussions, I ask you to take a moment and leave a comment here about your background as an editor (I provided my own background). Outline what you believe your strengths and your weaknesses are, and summarize what you want to accomplish for WikiProject Films this term. ——Erik (talk • contrib) 12:59, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Name

Congratulations. I just realised what your user name is based on Lansing Lugnuts? Am I right? Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 20:44, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Ah I did wonder! Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 09:36, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Moon of Israel

Thanks! HeartofaDog (talk) 00:44, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject Alternative Music Newsletter for March 2009

The Alternative music WikiProject Newsletter Issue 24 - March 2009

"I got a lot of shit for the Rolling Stone review of Reckoning because the guy really likes my guitar style and he wrote, 'on this record, Pete Buck does everything.' We'd stop for gas and it would be, 'Pete Buck does everything. Why don't you go pump the gas, Pete?'" - Peter Buck Project news Yeah Yeah Yeahs discography reached featured list status during the past month. Well done to Drewcifer3000. We collaborated on Liam Gallagher, Riot Act (album), Automatic for the People, Jane's Addiction, and "Give It Away" (Red Hot Chili Peppers song) during the past month. During the month of March, "Lovers in Japan", "Hello Sunshine", Evergreen, Reckoning (R.E.M. album), Love Kraft, "Golden Retriever" (song), and Delorentos were promoted to good article status. This month's "Recommended Alternative Album" is Hüsker Dü - New Day Rising (1985).

New members LizParker and Cavie78 joined the alternative music fold during March. Editors User:WesleyDodds

SoxBot II (talk) 02:13, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Evald Schorm

Hello Lunguts. I've improved a bit your new article about Czech director Evald Schorm. I would like to nominate it as DYK, I hope you don't mind (?) Check my changes, please.. Thanks. --Vejvančický (talk) 19:32, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Request advice/assistance

Sirs: I am crossposting this request to these users. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Lugnuts, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Girolamo_Savonarola, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:SouthernNights The first two are users who head up the Wiki film articles. I have seen your names on hundreds of articles and appreciate your good and fair work. The last is a semi-retired (?) admin that I see has been involved in this sort of issue before.

As you can see from my edits I am a film fan too, but because of personal issues and work requirements I have precious little time to do much serious editing. Just a few snippets every few weeks. But, for every edit I’ve done I’ve read a hundred or more film based articles.

Recently I made some edits to this post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_strada I reverted an anonymous vandalism of the page wherein a good link to a fine essay was removed. The vandalism was done by an anonymous IP editor. When I restored the link another editor deleted it and claimed the link was spam.

A few months ago I got a silly warning/threat on my talk page saying that I was vandalizing and spamming pages because I restored another link or two. The issue seems to be the particular writer and source of the links. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Schneider_(writer) You will notice this page is under protection for vandalism by the admin I crosspost this too. After I was threatened as a spammer I looked into the history of this writer, etc., and saw that there have been numerous vandalisms and deletion attempts of the article, and mass reversions of links to articles by this writer. I cannot find it now, but I even saw that there was a list where my handle was included as a spammer thought to be the writer Dan Schneider.

This is very ridiculous. It seems to be a pattern that there is a war between anti-Schneider and pro-Schneider forces, and anyone who links to anything containing or referencing Schneider is threatened, banned or harassed. First I am not Dan Schneider. Second, in fact I first found out about Schneider’s film reviews thru Wikipedia. I think his reviews and website are great. But I have not indiscriminately linked to pieces. I simply have not the time to do so, and even if did have better things to do. But every so often I have restored a few links when I see blatant vandalism. And note that Schneider’s personal Wikipedia page was vandalized by another IP #. This seems to be a pattern.

My point is that I am a film fan and participate in discussion groups and boards and have found many good sites and articles (including Schneider) because of Wikipedia links. I think the links are usually MORE valuable than the articles, frankly. I dislike returning to an article where I found a link and see it removed because of some editors’ personal bias: film or director or critic or whatever personal silly reason. Take a look at the links recently removed from La strada. http://www.brokenprojector.com/wordpress/?p=40 This is a rather generic personal blog link http://blogcritics.org/archives/2007/04/12/175922.php This is the Schneider link and it has far more detail history and quality here. When I was claimed to be a spammer I followed a link provided and found this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:EL What should be linked Shortcut:WP:ELYES 1. Wikipedia articles about any organization, person, web site, or other entity should link to the subject's official site, if any. 2. An article about a book, a musical score, or some other media should link to a site hosting a copy of the work if none of the "Links normally to be avoided" criteria apply. 3. Sites that contain neutral and accurate material that cannot be integrated into the Wikipedia article due to copyright issues, amount of detail (such as professional athlete statistics, movie or television credits, interview transcripts, or online textbooks) or other reasons. On all three listed points the Schneider article I linked and many others meet the mark. Then there is this. Links normally to be avoided 1. Any site that does not provide a unique resource beyond what the article would contain if it became a Featured article.

Clearly the link I linked back is unique, especially compared to the generic link that was restored. This and these other two points seem to be used as reasons to delete.

4. Links mainly intended to promote a website. See External link spamming.

The link I restored made no mention of Schneider or his website. I restored it just so that others could make use of its insights like I did. If that’s spam then every Pauline Kael or New York Times or Roger Ebert link (and there are hundreds of times more for them) is spam too.

11. Links to blogs, personal web pages and most fansites, except those written by a recognized authority (this exception is meant to be very limited; as a minimum standard, recognized authorities always meet Wikipedia's notability criteria for biographies). 11

Now, some claim that Blogcritics is just a blog, and I’ve seen deletions of Schneider and other good articles for that. But, Blogcritics is not just a blog. It uses blog technology, but it’s a magazine with over 4 million readers a month. That’s more than all but a few print magazines and papers. And it’s quite professional looking to read. Having followed links provided by the person who said I spammed I found that Schneider meets notability requirements because he has his own Wikipedia page and twice was noted as notable. He is published online and off and has had articles in major media. He also is part of some film critics group.

Yes there are folk who just add Schneider stuff to battle the vandals but I think that’s because there are many more people, like the IP # people who deleted and vandalized the Schneider page. I’m not one of them. I just want to see editors take some care and time. I’ve seen English wiki links written in foreign languages retained while Schneider and other good links are removed for the sorts of reasons I describe.

I realize this is a hornets nest, but this is why good editors get turned off to Wiki, like that admin I crosspost to. Could you please look at the revert I made and fairly decide if it should stay? I detest mindless reverts w/o even looking at links’ quality. I just think some unbiased eyes need to look at this. And, it’s not just Schneider’s link, but many links for films. I agree that 30 links is too much, but there has to be room in an encyclopedia for quality regardless of its source. Just because the New York Times has an article does not make it better than an online writer’s.

I do not wish to be trouble, but I also don’t wish to be labeled a vandal or worse, and I do not want to edit war with people. Thanks for your time.

Veritasmaximal (talk) 12:33, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Evald Schorm

(moved to main page)

My thanks go also to User:Haploidavey. He patiently helps me to polish my clumsy English prose. You create a lot of articles about Czech films, do you know some of them? It's noteworthy, since I love older Czech movies, and you collect the best of them! Is it coincidence? Have a nice day, and feel free to leave me a message, if needed. --Vejvančický (talk) 08:12, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Ohoo, coincidence again! I know it since my childhood - beautiful and sad film by Vojtěch Jasný. I've bought a DVD one month ago. Moravian village, communism and cruel fate for many people. I'll try to expand it, because it's TOP. --Vejvančický (talk) 08:24, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Manual of style

Hi, just found the enourmous list of articles you created. More than a great job btw. Two questions which are both one of my current pet peeves. When you create an article, could you reverse order the filmographies list? Oldest to newest instead of newest to oldest, see Wikipedia:Manual of Style (lists of works)#Filmographies and [1] for an easy script. And could you stop using flags in the infobox. Per wp:mosfilm and wp:mosicon. These two are two of my current wikignomish missions. :) Garion96 (talk) 09:28, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Oops, could have sworn I turned that option on. Thanks. Garion96 (talk) 10:06, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Not that I know. I was thinking indeed of creating some more of those. If for the only reason that people in general don't revert a template back to a flag. :) Also related. I see that you use a lot of "selected filmographies", why not a complete list? Garion96 (talk) 10:15, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Considering the 2000+ actors articles you created, I really can understand the time constraints reason.... Garion96 (talk) 10:20, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Greetings from Bali

Tourist girls in Bali
local view

Hi. Good ideas, I propagated them to the others I've been doing. Cheers, Jack Merridew 12:47, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Ropeadope Records

So, why did you redirect Ropeadope Records wiki page? practical joke? could be funny if i knew why. Can you remove the redirect now? "Ropeadope99 (talk) 00:15, 20 April 2009 (UTC)"

Updating swans discography

hello and thx.. I just added some other stuff. nice info..

could you update the picture of the children of god /world of skin cd? I don't know how to do that. ciao ed.

by the way we'd need to add also the jarboe swans rarities collection cd to the swans discography..

Sjöström articles

Hi! I don't really want to be discouraging, but it might not be a good idea to add every single film by Victor Sjöström to the encyclopedia. There are quite a few of them that are short, lost, bad and forgotten, with only the title and a few brief, negative reviews still existing. It might be better to leave them out so it becomes easier to distinguish the ones that are notable, and perhaps just discuss some sort of collective summary of themes, typical plots, usual actors etc. in the biography. Smetanahue (talk) 17:05, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Flags

Mmm don't tell me. You've had a visit from Garion? Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 18:19, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Infoboxes

I don't see the need of a nearly empty infobox only repeating what is written exactly on its left. --'''Attilios''' (talk) 13:38, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it means that goal is wrong or silly. I like infoboxes and add them as possible, but using them just to repeat TWO infos which are listed millimeters on the left offends my intelligence and makes the page ridiculous. --'''Attilios''' (talk) 13:45, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Cannes

Have you considered making any navigation templates to link the Cannes entry film by year? Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 18:19, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

I mean apply a template to the film articles linking the entries for the given year e.g Entries into the 1974 Cannes Festival, place all the films nominated in that year into a 1974 template etc. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 19:05, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Just an idea. I've seen you doing a great job on the world film entries by year, really helping fill in some of the more notable films for some of the industries. If you had the templates filled with the entries (and winner) for each year you could red link all the films in the templates ahead of you. I'm not a fan of too many templates in one article myself but it might be a good idea to do so for these. Up to you. KUTGW Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 19:13, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Hope you don't mind me stalking you and adding film posters? Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 18:07, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Its quite interesting actually seeing the assortment of world films you've been starting actually. Only 35 years left to do? Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 18:14, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Our Gang

Hello Lugnuts. Thanks for all the work you’ve done. I would like to contribute to the Our Gang articles and notice that you’ve done quite a bit there. Would you object to my expanding some of these articles? Particularly, the silent Our Gang films. I’ve already started on “One Terrible Day.” I don’t want to interfere with one of your projects, so please let me know. Perry Hotter (talk) 11:58, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, Lugnuts. Perry Hotter (talk) 12:34, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Lugnuts - Thanks for de-stubbing my article. I feel like I've accomplished something now! Perry Hotter (talk) 00:01, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

conway tearle

hello, I try to explain it in english, and excuse me if it's not very good, Im french.

I think IMdb database made a mistake abouth Tearle's date of death. It's not 1939 but 1938.I created the article in french, and my dictionnary give the year 1938 for Tearle's death. Ive found in the New York Times archives the article abouth his death on october,2nd,1938 at the age of 60 (born 1878). Moreover, if you look in IMdb database at this page, you can see[2] the details of the source which confirm what I said. Pierregil83(french log in) Sorry I could not log in on the english Wikipedia with my name —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.15.141.210 (talk) 08:26, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know - please change the article where necessary. Lugnuts (talk) 09:17, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject Films April 2009 Newsletter

The April 2009 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. If you have an idea for improving the newsletter please leave a message on my talk page. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 07:48, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Ropeadope Records

A tag has been placed on Ropeadope Records, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G4 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be a repost of material that was previously deleted following a deletion debate, such as at articles for deletion. Under the specified criteria, where an article has substantially identical content to that of an article deleted after debate, and any changes in the content do not address the reasons for which the material was previously deleted, it may be deleted at any time.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. TastyCakes (talk) 16:14, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Dutch films

I'm gonna download the huge dutch list from dutch wiki, save that crappy undeveloped list remaining so! Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 18:29, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Yeah thanks, the idea was to get most of the main ones blue linked and then work to adidng the info afterwards. Basically I have drawn up the shells I now have to go through them all and adding the basics. ANy help you can give me in filling them out and adding cast/direcotr and removing the under construction tag would be helpful. I actually forgot to add the Dutch film stub tag to half of them see Category:Dutch films. There should now actually be around 700 films. I started at least 500 yesterday, now I have my work cut out adding the basics. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 10:58, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

P.S thanks for splitting the huge list I had planned on doing that today. The coverage of Dutch cinema has long been extremely lacking so any help is appreciated. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 11:01, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Don't bother assessing each one. I'll ask somebody to do it 10x faster with AWB ok? Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 12:42, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

I did translate one yesterday with De mésaventure van een Fransch heertje zonder pantalon aan het strand te Zandvoort but the first job is to go through them all and add cast and director and link to imdb. Later the plot etc can be translated by whoever. I've reached 1915 so far but I need help! Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 12:47, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

We also have another expanded with Jesus is a Palestinian. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 12:50, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

OK then. I'm up to The Secret of Delft. I'll start on the 90s then and work backwards. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 13:13, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

One of the most depressing things is that most of these film articles we haven't got any articles on the actors and directors and are all red links like Het Phoenix Mysterie etc. Mos tof them are mainstream actors in the Netherlands with numerous credits too, Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 14:31, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

I think I'll make a stub sorting proposal to split British film stubs by decade. What do you think? Hey you are going to help me get the Dutch films done right? 1930s-1960s especially 1940s have few films in it, we could probably get it done in a few weeks even if just a few years every day. Appreciate your help anyway. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 17:36, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

OK cool. Yeha I'll try to do a few Dutch films everyday until it is done, I can't spend too long on one task so I'll help getting it done and some spurring on! Before Christmas I want to get most of the Italian films onto here. Maybe I will be filling out the film lists with titles and stubbing them. I'm sure you'll agree that the amount missing for French and Italian cinema (and Japanese) is enormous Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 18:10, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Making good progress, done 1990s and 1930s. Can you fill out Willy Mullens? Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 17:13, 5 May 2009 (UTC) Yeah I saw that. If he continues to make such edits on new page patrol it may be time to list an ANI on him. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 11:30, 7 May 2009 (UTC) I thought you had finished silent films De Waterrad des Doods? There is also some from 1927 onwards? Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 15:05, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Egil Eide

(moved to main page)

WikiProject Alternative Music Newsletter for April 2009

The Alternative music WikiProject Newsletter Issue 25 - April 2009

"The other day I had these Jehovah's Witnesses come round to my house, and they tried to convince me that the Pope was the Devil's representative on Earth. So I told them that Jesus was the world's first communist. So they left. They were genuinely enraged.'" - Ian Brown Project news We collaborated on The Stone Roses (album), "Don't Speak", Indie rock, and Eddie Vedder during the past month. During the month of April, Slow Life, "Lost!", and Phantom Phorce were promoted to good article status. This month's "Recommended Alternative Album" is Stereolab - Chemical Chords (2008).

Editors User:WesleyDodds

SoxBot (talk) 10:56, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks

Let me, please, express my thanks for your kind help and your nice reception here as well.

--Torarinele (talk) 09:52, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Re: Swans update

I am thinking about adding all live recordings (at least the ones I am aware of) that are available from swans.pair.com. what do u think?

inre The Collective (2008 film)

Your "Devil's Advocate" is appreciated (grin), but please don't start up your own festival. You won't like the headaches or the financial investmenture. Not wanting the discussion to digress at the AfD, I did a careful sidestep (chuckle). However, as someone "in the industry", I can with reasonable confidence state that the festivals listed on their website are indeed notable for independent fimmakers, have themselves received a great deal of press, and have shown films you might well have seen. I did not add that list of festival visits (and yes, I confirmed them) to the article as not adding anything to notability, but simply added a few of the ones where the film received recognition. I responded at the AfD... and I suppose that festival list could result in a dozen new articles for wiki if/when someone does the research. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 07:42, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Azeri cinema

Hey Lugnuts! Check out this. 3555 articles on Azerbaijani films!!Dr. Blofeld (talk) 20:08, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Lucy Gordon (actress) categories

Your edit to Lucy Gordon (actress) was against the sorting of categories 'policy'. They should be ordered by relevance (or alphabetical -- it's not actually a policy like I thought it was until I researched it to get wikilinks for this comment!) with lifetime template at the end. See Template:Lifetime#Usage for the last bit.

Of course this is also a small enough issue that I'm not going to bother fixing it. Mark Hurd (talk) 10:53, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Film posters

Thank You. I will add more. Vanjagenije (talk) 12:52, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Re:ITN

I've added "the" but there is no need to bypass redirects, per Wikipedia:R2D#Do_not_.22fix.22_links_to_redirects_that_are_not_broken. --BorgQueen (talk) 19:35, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

WP:OC#SMALL?

Hi, are you at all concerned that some of the films directed by categories you've created, such as Category:Films directed by Bernhard Sinkel, may violate WP:OC#SMALL? Shawn in Montreal (talk) 18:21, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject Films May 2009 Newsletter

The May 2009 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. If you have an idea for improving the newsletter please leave a message on my talk page. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 23:35, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Hello

Re: Ayn Rand: A Sense of Life and other articles I recently edited, I noticed you made a change in the infobox, i.e. United States instead of United States for the film's country of origin. Assuming your way was accurate, I used that format in The Lover, only to have Collectonian remove the links. She also added two release dates to the article, although I am certain the most recent consensus re: this topic was the release date in the country of origin is the one used. She also changed Academy Award for Best Cinematography to Academy Award for "Best Cinematography," which seems senseless to me. Based on her discussions with other editors on the film project and other talk pages, I know she insists on having things her way and immediately reverts changes even though a discussion about them is ongoing. I guess her position as a project coordinator has led her to believe she is the final authority. So . . . re: the country of origin and the releases dates in the infobox, and the linking of awards, what is your opinion? And do I just ignore her and allow her to have the final say on everything? Thank you for your input! LiteraryMaven (talk • contrib) 14:55, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject Alternative Music Newsletter for May 2009

The Alternative music WikiProject Newsletter Issue 26 - May 2009

"Well, I remember hearing girls behind me in English class talking about turning 18 and being old enough to strip. It wasn't that weird at the time.'" - Brandon Flowers Project news John Frusciante and U2 were featured on the Main Page on May 2 and 26. We collaborated on The Bends, Interpol (band), "How Soon Is Now?", "Hand in Glove", and "I Wanna Be Adored" during the past month. During the month of May, Fantasy Black Channel was promoted to good article status. This month's "Recommended Alternative Album" is Camera Obscura - Let's Get Out of This Country (2006).

Editors User:WesleyDodds

SoxBot (talk) 10:56, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

British film stubs

Thanks for sorting that out! Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 10:02, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Straw poll on displaying time since last edit

Hi, you weighed in on the "display time since last edit on article" discussion at the Village pump. I have now started a straw poll on the subject at WP:Village pump (proposals)#Straw poll. Your opinion would be appreciated. --Cybercobra (talk) 04:48, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

You have been nominated for membership of the Established Editors Association

The Established editors association will be a kind of union of who have made substantial and enduring contributions to the encyclopedia for a period of time (say, two years or more). The proposed articles of association are here - suggestions welcome.

If you wish to be elected, please notify me here. If you know of someone else who may be eligible, please nominate them here

Please put all discussion here.Peter Damian (talk) 10:25, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Pearl Jam 2009 tour article

I think it's too early to create an article about Pearl Jam's 2009 tour without giving them a chance to announce all of their dates. The dates that were announced all happen before the expected release of the album, which would go against what the band's done in the past. So, in actuality these may really be warm-up dates. The band recently sent out an e-mail (I think Thursday or Friday) saying they will be announcing more shows in the future. I think it is only fair to allow them a chance to do so. Then we will know the whole story. The article as it stands is assumptive. Also, any article about the tour to promote the album should be known as the Backspacer Tour like their other tour articles. The only reason the Pearl Jam 2006 World Tour article is titled as it is is because that album didn't have a title. I hope we can come to an agreement that it would be fair to allow more information to come to pass and then the article can be revisited and there will be no need for speculation. Thanks.-5- (talk) 15:44, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

(response to above originaly posted on -5- talkpage - recreated here for ease of flow):

Sorry, but I disagree. There's enough info to start this off now - it's only 8 weeks until the first show starts. I saw the TC email too, so new dates could be added any day now! Compare with these two articles I started way in advance of events happening: [3] and [4]. Enough RS to keep the page IMO - it already has the same number of dates as their first tour. Lugnuts (talk) 16:20, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

It's not about the number of dates, it is about knowing the whole story. For the 2007 and 2008 mini tours all of the dates were announced at once and there were no plans for future dates. That is the opposite with this tour. All of the dates haven't been announced and there are plans for future dates. The article makes the assumption that this is Pearl Jam's 2009 world tour when that may likely not be the case. There may be a whole other tour this year that we don't know about, and it would be wrong to jump the gun I feel. Would it really hurt to wait and then come back maybe in a month's time and revisit the article when possibly more dates have been announced and we have a clearer picture?-5- (talk) 16:30, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

(response to above originaly posted on -5- talkpage - recreated here for ease of flow):

I don't really see any problem. Everything so far has been announced via TC, if more dates are added, then more info can be added when it's posted. This is in exactly the same situation as the new album article. Lugnuts (talk) 16:32, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

The difference with the new album article is that it wasn't created until we had a title and a release date, and also there is enough concrete information about the album that there doesn't need to be any speculation. Yes, the dates are all properly sourced, that is not an issue. My biggest problem is that the article assumes that this is Pearl Jam's 2009 tour. Can we say that for sure? I think not.-5- (talk) 16:38, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

(response to above originaly posted on -5- talkpage - recreated here for ease of flow):

Well it's a tour by Pearl Jam happening in 2009! Sounds pretty definite to me! Lugnuts (talk) 16:40, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

No need for sarcasm. Is it a tour, or are they just the warm-up dates? Is the actual tour going to begin in September to coincide with the release of the album like their other tours to support albums? We don't know any of that. Look, we need to come to some kind of agreement. I'm not going to go back and forth on this all day. Maybe we need to get a moderator's opinion.-5- (talk) 16:47, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

(response to above originaly posted on -5- talkpage - recreated here for ease of flow):

The TC email states "2009 Tour Dates So Far". I'd say that pretty much confirms it. I thought you'd be helping to expand a new PJ article, rather than split hairs on is it a tour/isn't it a tour? A band playing gigs is a tour. Lugnuts (talk) 16:51, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

I have put in a request at Wikipedia:Third opinion. Look, I am not trying to be difficult. I always have the best interest at heart.-5- (talk) 17:02, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I've been thinking about this. I think I will be okay with the article if these changes are implemented:

• move the article to Pearl Jam 2009 European/North American tour, just like the Pearl Jam 1993 European/North American Tour tour that preceded the Vs. Tour
• Avoid saying whether this is the tour to support Backspacer
• Remove the ACL date
• List the August dates like this:

European Leg

• 08/13/09 – Rotterdam, Netherlands – Sportspaleis Ahoy
• 08/15/09 – Berlin, Germany – Wuhlheide
• 08/17/09 – Manchester, England – MEN Arena
• 08/18/09 – London, England – O2 Arena

North American Leg

• 08/21/09 – Toronto, Ontario – Molson Amphitheatre
• 08/23/09 – Chicago, Illinois – United Center
• 08/24/09 – Chicago, Illinois – United Center
• 08/28/09 – San Francisco, California – Outside Lands Festival

Is that acceptable? Can we put this discussion to rest?-5- (talk) 17:27, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Sorry about the trouble, hope there's no hard feelings.-5- (talk) 18:43, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Category:Films directed by Errol Morris

I took you advice to heart and have been creating more films by director cats, when I get a chance. However I didn't note that this one for Errol Morris is duplicated by a template and so I have nominated for deletion. If you'd like to weigh in at the CfD, please so. best, Shawn in Montreal (talk) 04:27, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Dutch films

Hi. I still haven't got around to filling in the Dutch films from 1960-1989. If somebody else is working on a few every few days then I'll feel more up to it. Can you help fill out a few? Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 17:19, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Category:Documentaries by topic

Thank you for raising this. I would like to see the Category:Documentaries by topic renamed as Category:Documentary films by topic and with sub-categories renamed as you mentioned for the simple reason that as the top-level Category:Documentaries states,

Documentaries are based on the attempt, in one fashion or another, to "document" reality. Documentaries come in three forms:

* Documentary film (television and movie) * Radio documentary * Photojournalism can also be considered a form of documentary.

'For documentary films, please see the Category:Documentary films, below, and select the most appropriate sub-categories.

Right now, Category:Documentaries by topic is a sub-cat Category:Documentary films. Instead, I think it pretty clear that a rename is in order, to reflect the fact that this is within the film/TV branch of the larger film-TV/radio/photojournalism documentaries family. Hope you agree. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 12:12, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Giant Records (independent label)

A tag has been placed on Giant Records (independent label) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a company or corporation, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, as well as our subject-specific notability guideline for companies and corporations.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. Hoponpop69 (talk) 21:37, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Categories for films by length

The nomination has been expanded since you commented, so you may want to revisit the CFD. Otto4711 (talk) 20:08, 24 June 2009 (UTC)