User talk:League Octopus/Archive 1

Your edits to Yorkshire and the Humber

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Keith D (talk) 12:41, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Kakkonen 2009

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Proposed deletion of Nelonen 2009 League Tables

The article Nelonen 2009 League Tables has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

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Article titles

The correct naming convention should be 2009 Ykkönen, not Ykkönen 2009 League Table. The season is the subject and the final league table merely one detail of that, albeit quite an important one. I will start moving these articles to the correct titles straight away. Regards. --Jameboy (talk) 21:05, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Ykkönen League Tables

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Orphaned non-free image File:Zenith Myllypuro.png

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FC Kontu Itä-Helsinki

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Good work on Swedish football clubs!

Hello Finnish Gas, through my monitoring of newly added Sweden-related articles, I've noticed that you've been creating several articles on "mid-tier" Swedish football clubs, and making additions on e.g. historial league information to many more. Just stopped by to say that you're doing good work! Tomas e (talk) 12:07, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

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Orphaned non-free image File:Atlantis Football Club.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Stattena IF.png

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About the season to season template

Hello, I've noticed that you have added your season to season template on many football club articles on wikipedia. While I think that this might be good in the short run for lower tier club articles its not to recommend in the long run or for higher tier clubs. I believe that a proper history section describing the events would be better or perhaps a smaller timeline like this one:

or perhaps the one to the lower right

Chart showing the progress of Aston Villa F.C. through the English football league system from the inaugural season in 1888–89 to 2007–08 when Aston Villa came sixth in the Premier League.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your work on middle and lower tier football articles. I just reacted to the fact that no good or featured articles about football clubs feature such dominating graphics as your template and for the future improvement of such articles I think that it should be avoided. This is however just my opinion and I would advice you to discuss this at WP:FOOTBALL or with a user that has a lot of experience within the subject (can be found at WP:FOOTBALL). Thanks--Reckless182 (talk) 05:58, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

I can understand what you want to provide and I believe it may be OK for lower league with few user contributors on WP but to have it for Superettan clubs (especially ones with such a large history section as Hammarby IF) is too much. My point is just that the season to season template might discourage users to write a history section. My advice would be to feature the template on lower league club articles, Div2 and lower. But then again, some advice from WP:FOOTBALL might be good to hear what user more experienced on the subject thinks. Unfortunately I can't help you with the league tables, the few ones I've were done manually and I believe your looking for some kind of automatic process?--Reckless182 (talk) 10:43, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Fair point, however as you may notice, none of these articles are feautured or even good articles. That and the fact that nothing about a season to season section is included in the manual of style for clubs on WP:FOOTY gives me the clue that it shouldn't be included. But everything can be improved so I may be wrong, It's only my opinion.--Reckless182 (talk) 13:39, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Spelling

Hey, since I've noticed it on several of your newly written articles I'd thought i'd notify you. When you write that a club is affiliated to a specific "fotbollsförbund", please don't write the before, it sounds wrong for a Swedish reader. The S in example Skånes fotbollsföbund is enough. For example you don't write "The Londons bus company" or similar.--Reckless182 (talk) 12:23, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Tunavallen

No problem, it was easy to fix. Actually I did a mistake too, Tunavallen is located in Luleå! I have no idea why I wrote Umeå, I must have been very tired tonight. But I don't know how to rename files on Commons. BTW it is nice to see the great work you have done on all the articles about Swedish football! --Skizzik^talk 12:16, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:IF Haga.png

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Färjestadens GoIF

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Orphaned non-free image File:Markaryds IF.png

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Nomination of Anjur Osmanovic for deletion

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Orphaned non-free image File:Partille IF.png

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TUSC token a7ddf43ed9bcc1c60a62ec3c147da7ab

I am now proud owner of a TUSC account!

DYK for Coldham Hall

Cheers, BigDom 08:03, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:FC Hämeenlinna.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Manchester FA.png

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East Riding County Football Association

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Orphaned non-free image File:East Riding County FA.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:FC Kuusysi.png

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County FA

Edits like this and this are not constructive. They are not referenced and Wikipedia is not a place to collect WP:INDISCRIMINATE information. Please stop or if you must continue please provide context as to why the addition is necessary. e.g. When it happened and why it was significant. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 15:57, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Hello, League Octopus. You have new messages at Rambo's Revenge's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

It is clear that we have a difference of opinion on this issue. In my view it is extremely helpful to link a club with its County FA and hence its historical heritage. I can see that you take a keen interest in Ipswich Town and by following the link to the Suffolk County FA one can establish:

1. Ipswich Association (now Ipswich Town) was a founder member of the Suffolk FA in 1885.
2. A list of notable "Affiliated Member Clubs" which includes Ipswich Town along with more than 25 other senior clubs within Suffolk.
3. Details of Suffolk Cup winners (follow appropriate link) which enables one to see at a glance the 17 wins by Ipswich Town of the Suffolk Senior Cup.

My short addition was is not indiscriminate trivia but an extremely helpful link to IPTC's heritage. I have been undertaking a lot of work on County FA's with the emphasis on promoting their historical heritage rather than their current administrative functions. Take a look at for example London FA, Manchester FA as well as the Suffolk County FA.

Finally I am cautious in adding further justification (When it happened and why it was significant) as this would change the context and result in "information overload". The bottom line is that if the reader follows the County FA link he or she should easily be able to find relevant information.

(Finnish Gas 17:12, 17 July 2011 (UTC))

Point 3 is completely irrelevant. Understanding this usage, I retained those links in my edit so your point in response to mine is moot. As for the others, placing this very minor and fairly insignificant information in the lede, that is quite ridiculous. Wikipedia:LEDE#Relative_emphasis says "Significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article". If you maintain that this founder member stuff is important enough then it should be placed in the relevent section in the history of the club, referenced, within context. Putting a sole wikilink in the lede of a featured article is clearly giving it WP:UNDUE weight. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 17:51, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

By the way I always commend improving articles like I've noticed you have done to Northamps FA, and you've been adding refs which is good but unfortunately they all seem to be WP:PRIMARY sources. Policy tells us "Do not base articles entirely on primary sources." You of course may improve pages any way you wish but if you have a real interest in these I suggest trying to establish notability as the Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies) criteria states the organisations should have "significant coverage in reliable, independent secondary sources". Without that they could be deemed non-notable and the pages (including your hard work) deleted. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 17:10, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

I take the point regarding the desirability for a good mix of sources including independent secondary sources. The problem with County Football Associations is that there is often very little in the way of secondary source material although sometimes I am able to identify useful articles in County FA magazines and Handbooks. The bottom line is that one is often reliant on the primary source. In the case of Northamptonshire County FA my trawl through their magazines for a useful article on the organisation's history proved fruitless.

I attach a couple of pages I have produced fairly recently which demonstrates that I do use a range of sources when they are available:

• Ram Hill
• Henfield, Gloucestershire

(Finnish Gas 17:36, 18 July 2011 (UTC))

I haven't fully caught up with all of this but instead of adding a sentence to every football club article saying "Blah is a member of the Gah Football Association", why not talk to WP:FOOTBALL to see if there's a consensus to add it as a parameter in the {{Infobox football club}} template? The Rambling Man (talk) 17:52, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

This is good advice although it could be difficult to reach consensus on the inclusion of an "Affiliation" parameter in the {{Infobox football club}}. I will also make a request for its inclusion in the {{Infobox football league}}. I provide the complete debate above for your information. (Finnish Gas 09:22, 19 July 2011 (UTC))

I agree with the above - the information is not particularly relevant for articles and particularly not for the introduction. An affiliation section in the infobox may be ok, but then again, where would you stop? County FA, national FA, continental FA, FIFA? Number 57 09:07, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

PS, could you possibly reduce the number of columns in the lists of cup winners on the Suffolk County FA article from four to three - four is too many for some screen width resolutions and means everything is far too bunched up to be readable. Cheers, Number 57 09:13, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments. I am very disturbed about the arbitrary deletion of my work re Bungay Town F.C. and am therefore giving up my work on County Football Associations (and I have completed 19 Associations across England!).

I accept that a reference to a County FA in the lead should be avoided if possible but find it very hurtful that you removed the County FA reference from the history section when clearly the history of the club and association are inter-twined. The information I provided is not unimportant and redundant in my view. I can see that this is an issue that will not go away and will therefore make a dignified exit.

I think that you make a very relevant point regarding how an Affiliation parameter in the infobox might be used at different levels by various users. I think that I am probably on a loser on that one as well. I thank you for highlighting the screen resolution problem - this is quite a tricky one for me to sort out given the number of pages that I have prepared. Perhaps reducing the text size of the tables would be another option?

I wish you well and note that we have a mutual interest in Suffolk. (Finnish Gas 10:12, 20 July 2011 (UTC))

I don't think reducing the text size would be very helpful, as that may also make it difficult to read. I'm sorry if you found the removal of information on the Bungay article hurtful, but I just can't see that it is noteworthy - it is already mentioned in the history section that the club has played in the Suffolk Senior Cup, which will take someone onto that article and then a link to the Suffolk FA. I certainly wouldn't give up your work on County Associations, I just wouldn't bother including it in club articles. Number 57 10:24, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

PS - just a thought - one way to solve the problem may be to use categories - you could create Category:Clubs affiliated with the Suffolk FA, which would be a subcategory of Category:County Football Associations and Category:Sport in Suffolk. This way you wouldn't have to include the information in the text, but you could see all the clubs by using the category. These affiliation categories could replace Category:English football clubs by county in the 14 cases where they exist (which I find somewhat pointless). Number 57 10:26, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

A beer for you!

Cheers! Divine time (talk) 17:32, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:IF Tunabro.png

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Hi

I just want to say I really admire your hard work. It's not easy to do, I for one know! Keep up the good work. One quick question; are there ethnic based football club in Finland as well? Just like the ones in Sweden. And if so, are there any Assyrian/Syriac ones? Thanks for you time. Chaldean (talk) 08:39, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Hello

I'm posting this message on your talk page because I noticed that you've recently created the new article Sidsjö-Böle IF--The image greatly improves the article. Jipinghe (talk) 19:39, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Svartviks IF.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Esbo Bollklubb.jpg

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Thanks for uploading File:Esbo Bollklubb.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Skier Dude2 (talk) 04:29, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

New Page Patrol survey

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1987 Allsvenskan (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)

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Orphaned non-free image File:Assyriska BK.png

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Regarding the changed season format of Svenska Cupen

Hi. As you may have noticed, the Swedish FA has changed the season format of Svenska Cupen to fall-spring instead of spring-fall. 2012–13 will be the first edition of the cup. This causes some problems regarding what season Svenska Cupen belongs to since Allsvenskan is still spring-fall run. I've looked at how previous year with the same format has been handled and found that for example Svenska Cupen title of 1995-96 was put under the 1996 in Swedish football article, this sounds reasonable to me.

I think we should stick to this format and put the 2012-13 Svenska Cupen under the 2013 in Swedish football article. For your navigation boxes, I believe that the same should apply, for example the 2012-13 Svenska Cupen should only have the Swedish football 2013 navbox with the 2012-13 tournament and 2013 final in it and so on for the next years, only one navbox, not both years. In this way every edition of the cup belongs to the year when the final takes place. This leaves 2012 without a tournament, I've removed the title and competition from the 2012 article, can I remove it from your 2012 navboxes if you agree with me or do you have a different proposal? Thanks --Reckless182 (talk) 20:05, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

BTW, Have you considered making a similar navbox like the one below for the Swedish football season? I think it's easy to navigate, a lot more room and doesn't take up all the space below the infobox of articles. What do you think? --Reckless182 (talk) 21:43, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

It is a difficult issue but it is clear that the 2012–13 Svenska Cupen should go with 2013 and not 2012. I have used the term "Svenska Cupen - not played" in the 1950s but in this situation it is not strictly true and I suggest that the following text is used to assist navigation:

Swedish Football 2012
Allsvenskan (Tier 1) Superettan (Tier 2) Svenska Cupen - not played (see 2012–13)

You will have noticed that I have undertaken a lot of work on the 1997–98 Svenska Cupen page. This appears to be a one off as the information is sitting there for 1997–98 in archive.org but it took a lot of patience to convert. Unless SFS have a change of heart re unrestricted access to their data sets for earlier years appears unlikely - so it is doubtful that we will ever get comprehensive Svenska Cupen coverage on Wikipedia for the period 1941 to 1996-97. I still have some tidying up to do on 1997–98 Svenska Cupen but at the moment it is averaging around 20 views a day.

(Finnish Gas 21:45, 25 November 2011 (UTC)).

Alright, that navbox would be fitting for the other 2012 articles (2012 Allsvenskan, 2012 Superettan and so on), but the 2012-13 Svenska Cupen article itself should have the 2013 in Swedish football navbox. Don't you agree?

Nevermind, I noticed how you have managed it for the 1990's, I'll change the navbox for the 2012–13 Svenska Cupen. --Reckless182 (talk) 21:57, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

I personally am not a fan of infoboxes at the bottom of the page - if there are two or more boxes they remain closed and users by and large do not look at them. The "season infobox" near the top of the page does really work - given the increased page views that I have perceived.

Your 2013 season box is fine.

(Finnish Gas 22:04, 25 November 2011 (UTC)).

Orphaned non-free image File:Bergsjö IF.png

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Thanks for uploading File:Bergsjö IF.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Skier Dude (talk) 03:51, 29 November 2011 (UTC)