Krajten
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Hello, Krajten. I wanted to let you know that I’m proposing an article that you started, Roberto Soldić, for deletion because it's a biography of a living person that lacks references. If you don't want Roberto Soldić to be deleted, please add a reference to the article.
If you don't understand this message, you can leave a note on my talk page.
Thanks,
Deletion discussion about Josip Artuković
editHello, Krajten,
I wanted to let you know that there's a discussion about whether Josip Artuković should be deleted. Your comments are welcome at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Josip Artuković .
If you're new to the process, articles for deletion is a group discussion (not a vote!) that usually lasts seven days. If you need it, there is a guide on how to contribute. Last but not least, you are highly encouraged to continue improving the article; just be sure not to remove the tag about the deletion nomination from the top.
Thanks, CASSIOPEIA(talk) 14:28, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
Dear Cassiopeia, I added sources for Josip Artuković article. It's all cited, I will try to clean it up a little today or tomorrow,
Best regards
Marko
Dear Cassiopeia,
I saw that my article about Josip Artuković has been deleted. Unfortunately I got a bad flue so I was in bed the whole week and I couldn't be involved in the discussion. Can you please clarify what is the reason for the termination of the article? Like I explained in my message, it's not possible to determine if someone is relevant enough for having his Wiki page by the number of fights in some promotions that someone decided are relevant. And some other are not. Specially if you are talking about fighters from SI Europe. Let me explain. UFC will not sign anyone from for example Bosnia and Herzegovina EVER, or Slovenia or Hungary, because this countries don't have a market big enough that is relevant to get their investment back. They can be the best in the world, business wise it doesn't make sense for them. So American or Brasilian or even Swedish (rich country) fighters have a big advantage and that's the reason why you have million American UFC fighters, but you don't have one in history that comes for example from Slovenia.
Or the other example...Bellator decides to do an event in Budapest, or Israel (because they have some financial interest there) and they sign bunch of bad local fighters because they want to fill the venue. That doesn't mean that this fighters are better that the ones that can't be signed by the big promotions in some other circumstances. What I am trying to say to you is that you can't judge someone's relevance by the number of fights in some promotions. That is WAAAAY to simple and not correct. It's terrible to be honest. I can send you trillion of examples where you have better and more acomplished fighters that don't have experience in "relevant" promotions and by this criteria and following that they can't have a Wiki page, but others, for example some Americans that filled in some gap on some event were signed by the UFC and that means they are relevant. Doesn't make any sense.
This are not things I speak without any background. I have a big reputation like a martial arts expert, reporter, journalist, TV Commentator, columnist and I've worked for couple of the biggest promotions like UFC, K-1, Glory... I was editor in chief of the Fight Channel for 7 years. You can google my name Marko Petrak, and check it out. And I see that... for example you don't have not one Wiki page for MMA fighters from Slovenia, Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Macedonia, Montenegro, Hungary... And you have trillion Americans and Brazilians. That just can't be right.
My goal is to present some of the brightest examples of the fighters from this area of the world and who are acomplished and well known. This are not some unknown fighters and not some, sorry for the words "shitty organizations". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbvL5OP6nrU Check it out.
So if I my articles for which I have to spend time and effort will be deleted, I won't do it any more because it doesn't make any sense.
Thank you for the clarification!
Best regards
Marko
- Hi Marko. Greetings to you and sorry to know that you were not feeling well. Hope all is good now. First of you when you want to send a message to other editor on "your talk page" (in this case which is me) you need to ping the editor by typing <nowiki>@CASSIOPEIA:<nowki/}}, so that I could receive a message to inform me of such. I made you talk page on my watchlist when I curated your article, so such I noticed you send me a message, if not I would not know. By the way, do keep the discussion in one place (one of the talk page instead of spread into 2 for easier discussion/tracking).
- I have replied you on my talk page (since you had wrote me on my talk page last time) and I am not sure you have read them - the link is here my talk page archive 2 #45 - User talk:CASSIOPEIA/Archive 2#Josip Artuković. Kindly read them if you have not and for such I would not reiterate what I have wrote but address some other here. I have read your concern, share the sentiment, understand your frustration and believe your insight knowledge of MMA.
- UFC do sign some Eastern European fighters, even thought the number is smaller compared that of Americans (about 1/3 of UFC roaster) and Brazilian (about 1/5 of UFC roaster), such as Polish fighters Damian Grabowski, Marcin Tybura, Adam Wieczorek, Jan Błachowicz, Michal Oleksiejczuk, Salim Touahri, Marcin Held, Joanna Jędrzejczyk, Karolina Kowalkiewicz and Marcin Prachnio; Croation fighter Igor Pokrajac, Moldavo fighter Ion Cutelaba, Serbian fighters Bojan Mihajlovic, Bojan Velickovic, Bosnian and Herzegovina fighters Damir Hadzovic and Mirsad Bektic (I know both of them were raised outside their birth country and adopted Denmark and US as their as their country current status) and maybe I missed one or two here. It is true that UFC would not organised an event in Eastern European countries for one no top fighters from UFC roaster are from that region and second venues availability and ticket prices/financial investment return might be concern. It is true that UFC has only less than one handful of fighters from Germany, UFC did went there but to say that, UFC has not gone to Norway or Austria event the financial return is assured for no top 10 fighters come from there yet.
- It is true there are a number of UFC fighters are less deserving than Eastern European countries for they got signed because they need the local fighters to fill up the fight cards when a local event is held and this is the sad true. The way it to work around it is that the fighters have to go outside of their countries and joined a bigger promotion in Europe and beat some name fighter/ex UFC fighters to get the attention of UFC such as Valentina Shevchenko and Emil Weber Meek (I know that would burden the financial of the fighters to make the trip to compete). As I have explain how the nobility was set and by a concession of majority editors before my time in Wikipedia, the only way to change the guidelines is through discussion/debate. There are mma editors in Wikipedia more inclusion of fighters should be in the guidelines as compare to the current status. Do note, I am but one of the MMA editors here, the guidelines need to be support by others for make a change for this is how Wikipedia works. Let me know if you intent to call a nobility discussion and if you do, give your facts, points, justifications, suggestions and call out the regular MMA editors to hear their voice. Last and not least thank you very much for writing to me and share this. Personally, I value your knowledge and happy to know that you have join Wikipedia especially in MMA sector. Thank you for sharing the Josip Artukovic vs Marko Drmonjic - FFC 11 Osijek fight, I did enjoy it, and also I did check out one of your Podcast Inkubator clips and fightsite, but I dont speak your tongue, cant appreciate without knowledge of such without translation :). Have a good night. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 17:04, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
- Hi Cassiopeia,
- I lost my interest in writing new articles after I realized that the one for Josip Artuković can't be published. I lost lot of time and at the end I was very dissapointed. But now I have some spare time again, so I was wandering two things: Is it possible to publish articles about fighters like Josip Artuković (and similar ones) on Croatian version of Wikipedia, if it's not possible to do it on English version? That would also be a good thing for popularity of the sport and people getin' the right information.
- And secondly, since my article for Roberto Soldić was a success (I see that lot of people use it and like it) can I do one for UFD Duesseldorf? This is a Gym where Roberto Soldic trains. It's voted the best MMA Gym in Germany for the past few years and fighters like Hector Lombard, Thiago Silva, Roberto Soldić, Abus Magomedov train there. I see that there is no wikipedia page for it and it's pretty famous in the world and a Croatian guy runs it.
- Thank you for your time and answer,
- Marko
- Hi Marko, Greetings to you and good to hear from you. First of all you need to "ping" the intended editor which you want to talk to so they would received a notification of the message. For example if you need to ping me just insert {
{{ping|CASSIOPEIDA}}(pls omit the "txl" as if you view this in edit mode). I know you message me because your talk page is in my watch list.
- Hi Marko, Greetings to you and good to hear from you. First of all you need to "ping" the intended editor which you want to talk to so they would received a notification of the message. For example if you need to ping me just insert {
- All Wikipedia languages are independent from each other. This means that each Wikipedia language site would have its own policies and guidelines. From my experience, English Wikipedia holds the strictest requirements compare to its sister sites on article notability requirements and article creation. I do not know what is the notability requirements for a MMA fighter for other sites. However, you could try to check it yourself.
- Here is the list of Wikipedia languages link - "click HERE" and click on the "Wiki" column of the languages of your choosing and they will take you to the sites.
- There are some new UFC fighters who are from Europe and have yet to have 3 fights in UFC and if you would like to write about them in the future in English Wikipedia (need at least 3 fights in UFC to meet MMA fighters notability requirements in English Wikipedia), pls check out - List of current UFC fighters. By the way, I saw a few video clips of yours in Utube, and got to say you are a very tall guy. :) Cheer and do write if you need further assistance. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 14:45, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
- @CASSIOPEIA:Dear Cassiopeida, thank you for your message. :))) I was actually in Las Vegas watching some fights, so I just returned to Zagreb so sorry for the delay. I will check the requirements for these other languages as you suggested. But I have a question for you? Can I do english Wikipedia for UFD Gym in Duesseldorf? I was trying to look for requirements about gyms (sports clubs etc...) but I couldn't fight anything. UFD Gym is voted the best Gym in Germany for two years and fighters like Roberto Soldić, Dawid Zawada, Hector Lombard, Thiago Silva, Gegard Mousasi, Abusupiyan Magomedov train there... And also I noticed that Abusupiyan Magomedov (http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Abusupiyan-Magomedov-60755) still does not have his wikipedia page. He is PFL's best fighter at the moment and also comes from UFD Gym so when I have time I would love to make his page. Is it possible to do it? Or it will be deleted? Tx for both answers.
- PS. Yes, I am quite tall 195 cm. Thank you for looking up! ;))
- Best regards
- Hi Marco, Good day. I envy you that you had the chance to watch the fights in Las Vegas - I want to make it there one day for UFC International fight week event in summer (I used to live in US for about 10 years and been to Las Vegas). For you questions, see below:
- UFD gym - I have checked and found no sources to support the notability of the subject in internet (English), if you could any sources which are independent, reliable (secondary sources) in any languages which the sources (at least 3) talk about the subject (UFD gym) in length and in depth and not merely passing mentioned then it would be accepted in EN Wikipedia. What I found so far are sources about fighters and UFD gym is mentioned in one or 2 sentences (passing mentioned) and that cant be used to demonstrate/contribute to the notability guidelines required. Sources such as official web site, home page, press release, interviews, sources associated with the subject, user generated sites and etc can NOT be used to demonstrate the notability but can be used to for content contribution as long as no other third parties info in them. Sources that are independent and reliable such as from major newspaper or any reputable MMA sources (MMAjunkie, MMA Fighting, In The Cage(Poland) , DANMMA (Holland), MMA Viking, MMA Mad, Sherdog, and etc all CAN be used.
- Abusupiyan Magomedov - I have checked Magomedov info on Sherdog, and he is unfortunately does not meet the NMMA requirements in English Wikipedia.
- Other sister Wikipedia - As for as I know, all other sister Wikipedia (diff languages) notability requirements are less strict than that of English Wikipedia. Each Wikipedia language site operates independently from each other, in other words we (EN) Wikipedia policies and guidelines do not influence them. I am not sure but believe as long you have independent, reliable sources the article will be accepted. (check withe help desk of the particular language Wikipedia). Since you are a Slav, and the eastern and southern Slav languages somewhat similar (i guess it is about 70% similar and do pardon me if i understand that wrongly), you would create similiar article in diff Wikipeidia languages sites - see here the complete list here - [1].
- Hi Marco, Good day. I envy you that you had the chance to watch the fights in Las Vegas - I want to make it there one day for UFC International fight week event in summer (I used to live in US for about 10 years and been to Las Vegas). For you questions, see below:
- I have a request and believe you could help. From the List of current UFC fighters, there is about 500 UFC fighters do have articles in EN Wikipedia and only less 100 of them their images/photos uploaded to Wikipedia. The requirements are (1) the editor (copyright holder) need to be the person who take the photo which means their have the copyright of the photos and (2) the copyright holder agrees to release the copyright to anyone to use the images. I believe you have taken many UFC fighter photos, and if you can, (a big hope here), pls allow your photos to be used by uploading them to [[2]]. The upload page is here - [[3]]. Photos should be in JPEG formats (for detail format see here WP:IUP#FORMAT. Let me know the (Wikipedia URLs) locations once you have uploaded the images that so I could insert into respective articles accordingly. Thanks in advance. BTW, are you a martial artist? I know a little of BJJ and Muay Thai (learnt in Thailand when I live in BKK for 2 years). Cheers. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 15:54, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
- @CASSIOPEIA: Dear Cassiopeia, thank you for your message! Vegas was fun, but I hate the jet leg. It was killing me for 2 strait weeks. It ruins my training schedule, everything. But Vegas is fun and if you have a chance to go, I can recomend it strongly. But 4-5 days is enough, you will see everything there is to see!
- 1. I will send you articles about UFD Gym asap!
- 2. I understand for Abusupyan Magomedov, hopefully he will go to Bellator or UFC soon and then he will be able to meet the requirements.
- 3. Yes of course! I make my photos available. Give me few days to find them all (they are on some hard drives) and I will get back to you!
- Regards and thanks,
- Marko
- @CASSIOPEIA: Dear Cassiopeia,
- here are some LINK-s for the UFD Gym. They were voted the best Gym in Germany in 2017. also, but I can't find the articles. But Here are some of them, from media like GNP1, InCage.pl, UFC.de, Germanfightnews...etc.
- If you need more, I can look!
- Best Regards,
- Marko
- 1. https://www.gnp1.de/thaikickboxen/allgemein/news/gnp1-awards-2016-alle-gewinner-im-ueberblick/ - Voted the best Fighting Gym in Germany
- 9. UFD Gym on InCage.pl - https://inthecage.pl/mma/ufd-gym/
- Hi Marko, Greetings. I have a look at the sources your provide, the pieces that UFD gym won the best team of the year (ref 1 - gnp1.de) and (ref 8) http://fenix-magazin.de would be good and do point out fighters such as Zawada (since he is in UFC) and their achievements are some of the fighters who train in the gym in the article you plan to write; however to say that it is a bounder line to pass notability as if you would find an article solely talk about the gym (not an interview piece) that would be great. Make sure the article write in a neutral point of view, keep it simple (as a stub first) and with at least 3 sources and provide inline citations (see - referencing for beginner if you need instruction and info). I will let other reviewer to make review of the piece.
- As for the photos, I am so grateful that you would help out. A BIG THANKS in advance. Fighters, Wikipedia readers and Wikipedia would benefit from your contributions. I have asked Ali Abdelaziz on twitter if he would help since he manages about 200 fighters, and I have not received any reply and that is expected. I am sure to see one of the UFC flag ship (PPV) events in Las Vegas would be fantastic (I watched 2 of the One Championship events, sitting on 3rd and 5th row in the front), you just cant beat the atmosphere watching something live vs on the TV that is same as watching live rock/metal concert vs on utube. Cheers and looking forward to hearing from you about the photos. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 16:26, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
Hi Marko, Good day. Just a quick check with you on the UFC fighters photo upload to Wikimedia as per our last conversation - Kindly update if you have uploaded them and ready to be used. Thank you. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 05:52, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
- @CASSIOPEIA:Dear Cassiopeia, thank you for your message and sorry for the late response! I had to do some traveling and some project came up so I didn't have time for anything and I had to put everything aside including Wikipedia. But today I will do the one for the UFD Gym and next week I will gather UFC fighters photos that I have. The thing is that I have to look for them on the old hard drives and computers, but I will do that. Sorry one more time for the delay but I have a crazy job.
- Best Regards, Marko
- Hi Marko, Thank you for remembering this and thanks in advance for helping. Looking forward to hearing from you once the photos are uploaded. If you need any help, pls let me know. Cheers. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 11:37, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
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Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year 2019! |
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Hi Krajten, Sending you a warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2019 and may this new year bring you joy and laughter. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 15:49, 13 December 2018 (UTC) Spread the love by adding {{subst:Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages. |
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