User talk:David Tornheim/Archive 10
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What education is required to read newspapers?
I was looking at the Teahouse archives (yes, I'm way behind) and saw your comment that newspaper articles were written at for sixth-graders. I don't know where you got that, but I have access to NewsBank through a local library. I interpret what is shown with each article as indicating the education level required to read the article. Most of them seem to be for high school graduates.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 22:32, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Vchimpanzee: I heard this decades ago from what I thought at the time was a reliable source. It may no longer be true. From my own reading of newspapers, I think--as you mentioned--it depends on which paper or which author or article. I'm guessing the number I got was for more ordinary mainstream local papers in various cities, but not prestigious publications like the Wall Street Journal, New York Times, or other periodicals. If I have time, I might look into it.--David Tornheim (talk) 05:27, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
- I'm not talking about prestigious newspapers. NewsBank shows, for example, for this article "Lexile: 1470, grade level(s): >12". I thought I had seen something specific about the education required. If you can access that without a subscription, I assume that's the same article I read, but I'm not taking chances with running out of free articles.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 16:02, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
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Hello! After reviewing previous discussions, I saw that you were previously involved in Operation Gideon (2020) and don't think you have been notified of any of the recent discussions. If you are interested, feel free to take a look talk page to see how we have been improving the article and working on a new title. Any input would be greatly appreciated! WMrapids (talk) 02:03, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
- WMrapids Thanks for the ping. Sorry I have not gotten back to you sooner. I don't have much time for Wikipedia editing right now, and no way I can jump into the hornets' nest of those articles right now. I appreciate the work you are doing and wish you luck in making them NPOV and keeping in the sourced material that is being inappropriately deleted. I did see the recent AN/I that got closed without action. Nice effort. Please don't get discouraged. If I had to give one piece of advice for all the time I have spent on articles like that: Always focus most on RS both in supplying it and insisting on it. No one can ever attack you for that. I think you are doing that. So much discussion I have seen on Wikipedia on talk pages tend to end up with editors saying that other editors did something wrong. Such accusations often just escalate rather than being resolved. when it comes to AN/I, simple diffs are best. Long paragraphs will tend to be ignored. --David Tornheim (talk) 17:14, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you for your advice and your reply. As I said in the ANI, it was clear civil POV pushing. With such subtle edits, I felt like all of the context had to be provided since the numerous problems being observed and addressed were more important than a successful sanction. Hopefully things are more calm moving forward, but if there are future issues with other users or myself, a history of such behavior has now been documented in that report. WMrapids (talk) 05:35, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
- WMrapids If you or Ultranuevo do feel the need to go to AN/I again, I suggest you spend some time looking at successful and unsuccessful posts there. It is always the diffs that make the case. I believe the senior editors who read the narratives at AN/I know there are two sides to every story, so they will assume the narrative posted is probably one-sided. The diffs, on the other-hand, are indisputable and are easy to identify and look at. If the diffs look bad, you have a case. Also, always make sure to provide simple diffs showing the editor was warned. Make multiple strong warnings before bringing someone to AN/I, and if you do go, show diffs for each of the warnings. This is one example of my successful AN/I in that area: [1]. I have plenty of experience with posting unsuccessful AN/I's. :)
- Also, establishing another editor is POV-pushing is difficult. Editors at AN/I are unlikely to know the subject articles and its RS. It is unreasonable (or at minimum unrealistic) to expect editors who have not participated in the subject to read all the RS to understand if there is bias. Edit-warring, acting against consensus, or name-calling are accusations that are more easily proven. --David Tornheim (talk) 13:32, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you for your advice and your reply. As I said in the ANI, it was clear civil POV pushing. With such subtle edits, I felt like all of the context had to be provided since the numerous problems being observed and addressed were more important than a successful sanction. Hopefully things are more calm moving forward, but if there are future issues with other users or myself, a history of such behavior has now been documented in that report. WMrapids (talk) 05:35, 20 January 2024 (UTC)