Template talk:Please see

Subst

This template has to be Subst'ed because of the use of a section heading. Is there a better way to do this without having to Subst it?—Markles 14:21, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Because it's meant for the user talk namespace, I think it should always be subst'ed. Why? Because that way, even if the template gets edited later, the original notice stays exactly as-is, providing an accurate record of what the editor saw on their talk page. If we don't subst it, and then later it gets edited, or even deleted, the user's talk page is no longer an accurate reflection of the conversation.--Aervanath lives in the Orphanage 14:52, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Good point.—Markles 15:19, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Not really. {{talkback}}, {{wb}}, etc. are rarely subst'd, and don't demand in their documentation that they be subst'd. It's different for user warning templates, where because user warnings and what they said can be facts with serious consequences, you do definitely wanted to subst them. While this particular template does have to be subst'd because it embeds section heading and signature, the rest of the rationale for doing so doesn't apply, and a variant of this template that did not embed these things, like {{talkback}} doesn't, would not be subst'd. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(^Õل^ō)ˀ Contribs. 09:55, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Name change

I greatly welcome a better name. (It's currently {{Please see}}.) I suggest "{{See discussion}}." Any other nominations?—Markles 14:22, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

I've created "See discussion" as a redirect to "Please see". I prefer the current name because it's shorter. Either way, we can't move it until the Tfd is over.--Aervanath lives in the Orphanage 14:55, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

{{tfd}} removed and a recommendation

I have removed the {{tfd}}. Is there any chance of having the signature as part of the template rather than having to add it manually? Some editors may forget to add it. -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 20:42, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

I've experimented with that, but was never able to get it right. Which templates have built-in signatures? I can go look and copy them.--Aervanath lives in the Orphanage 21:02, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

 Done Figured it out.--Aervanath lives in the Orphanage 07:12, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Friendliness

I reverted an edit changing the template from "You might be interested in..." to "Please see". I think "Please see" sounds more like a command, and this template isn't for something obligatory, it's for letting people know, in a friendly fashion, of a discussion that they might be interested in.--Aervanath lives in the Orphanage 05:50, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Minor change

In case anyone was wondering about these edits, what I was doing was substing the parser functions so that section edit links would show up (before, if you used this on a talk page, you would not get edit links next to the section). It should be working now. rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 13:11, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Personalisation

I've been using this for messages from our project. The main point is that it personalises the message (where it says 'Please see' below that is the name of the name space, which would be the user's name). I think it sounds nice and polite. The only thing it doesn't do is automate the signature (the signature on it is mine). I don't know how to make it into a template:

Hi Please see! An article you have been involved with has been tagged by its parent project as being in need of a little attention or further development. If you can help with these minor issues please see talk:xxxxxx--Kudpung (talk) 01:29, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Norway#Category:People by district in Norway

You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Norway#Category:People by district in Norway. meco (talk) 23:46, 24 January 2011 (UTC) (Using {{Please see}}). __meco (talk) 23:46, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

The above is merely an example to show that there is something very wrong with this template. The code used to produce this was {{ subst:Please see |location=Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Norway#Category:People by district in Norway}}. __~~~~ __meco (talk) 23:48, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

• It seems like it's working fine. I think the problem is that you included "~~~~". That's already included in the code. I can add some explanation in the instructions telling users not to include that. Am I right about the problem, and do you think it would help? 01:03, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
  • Yes, I think that should be included. Also, it is customary that such templates do not identify themselves overtly but keep the self-reference hidden as a commented out text. __meco (talk) 11:35, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
    • I'll put a note on the usage to tell users not to add "~~~~". The template's self-id, however, is included because it's a subst'd template and there's no other way to let future users know how it was employed. It's only used on talk pages, so it's not that intrusive. I tried to make it as small in conspicuous as possible, and I've reduced it to {{pls}} (although I welcome suggestions on reducing its footprint further). —Markles 13:15, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Rendering problem

Resolved

Hi.

Special attention for Technical 13. Revision #644940455, currently in the sandbox renders as follows:

This code:

{{subst:Please see/sandbox|Mobile operating systems|section=Windows 8 a mobile OS?}}

...gives:

You are invited to join the discussion at Mobile operating systems#Windows 8 a mobile OS?yes. Thanks. Codename Lisa (talk) 08:01, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 08:05, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

This code:

{{safesubst:Please see|Mobile operating systems|section=Windows 8 a mobile OS?}}

...gives:

You are invited to join the discussion at Mobile operating systems#Windows 8 a mobile OS?. Thanks. — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 15:19, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Lisa, I apologize if you thought I was rude or DICKish. I literately spent an hour or so digging through all of your recent talk contributions and could find no instances of it being broken or you fixing a broken usage or even discussing it with another editor and your edit summary was less than helpful Faulty rendering. Reverting to last known good state. Anyways, I've fixed the rendering issue per this section and have put it back into the live template so that my uses with a link directly to a section aren't broken. Thanks and happy editing. — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 15:19, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

@Technical 13: No, I didn't get to thinking the Dictator part; I honestly ... forgot! But you should have asked me. I won't bite! (Especially not you.) So when I forget to take the initiative, please start the discussion part. Remember how we TemplateEditors work? Upon encountering technical faults, we revert and stick to discussion and WP:1RR until the technical difficulty is resolved. There is no other safe way. Also, I had to delete the heading in your message; it prevents me from replying. (I am sure there was a dummy heading template that simulated it but don't remember its name.)

Best regards,

Codename Lisa (talk) 17:31, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Forced italics?

My explanation in the es was pretty complete, but I want to expand a little on the italics part. I don't see a reason to force that text to always be italics. It isn't that difficult if someone wants their text to be italic to wrap it in ''double single quotes''. It's only four characters after all (even if we made in an optional parameter with a minimum number of characters it would be |i=y which is also four characters, so there is no savings there. Also, by forcing italics in this way, if someone wanted the text to be bold only it would require them to input it as |more='Some bold text' or if they wanted to use a single quote to wrap their text they would have to use |more=<nowiki>'single quoted text'</nowiki>. All of these pieces means that it is a bad idea to force italics in this way (or any way for that matter). — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 14:56, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

@Technical 13: I understood your reason, and if no one wants it I'll leave it alone. The only reason I had changed it is because I used Twinkle to send this to someone and was surprised when it didn't italic my comment like twinkle does with other user talk messages when added to templates. I guess I could contact the twinkle people about it, but I though this would just be simpler. I also think you miss-layered the code and nowiki above. EoRdE6^{(Come Talk to Me!)} 15:08, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

• You could add it in a pull request on GitHub for Twinkle. It would actually be a very easy thing to do. If coding .js isn't something you want to think about, I think a request/discussion on WT:TW asking for it would certainly be useful. You are right about the mislayering, I do it ALL the time and as such I really wish that PrimeHunter or someone would do this request soon. — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 15:16, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Fish Eye

Maile66 has raised concern about the fish eye image. Is there a more appropriate image that can be used?--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 00:55, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Yes, and besides my initial comment you have linked, it also triggers a reflex that malware might be on Wikipedia. Please, please use an image that doesn't look like an invasion of privacy. Thanks so much. — Maile (talk) 12:10, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

• NOTE I've updated the template to optionally turn off the image by using |noimage=yes -- 70.51.202.183 (talk) 04:36, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request in re Template:format linkr

This template doesn't handle underscores right. [1] It is quite normal for power users to want to use underscores with this template, as it's faster. (E.g. Skdb @ Talk:People of the Philippines v. Santos, Ressa and Rappler § Discussion on blurb for In the News on the Main Page.)

I have updated it to use {{format linkr}} instead.[2][3] (based off latest rev., 957158492) Please therefore copy Template:Please see/sandbox to Template:Please see. Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 12:58, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

As the user guilty of providing the example material here, I'd be very happy to see this change, assuming it works as intended. Are there any articles that include an underscore in the title that might create issues? {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 18:18, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

@Skdb: Such cases should be by far in the minority. And, since this template is substituted, we don't have to worry about old uses of it, only new ones. In any event, I just added a |allow_underscore=y which switches between {{format link}} and {{format linkr}}.[4] Once it's in the main template I'll document it in Template:Please see/doc. Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 18:29, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Maybe I'm missing something, but what is "not right" about the above examples? Primefac (talk) 19:28, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

@Primefac: They have underscores, when they would look better without them. Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 19:30, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit template-protected}} template. Nardog (talk) 23:31, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

I'm not seeing anyone oppose, so keeping open. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 23:50, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

Well, please don't do that. A request for establishing a consensus should be taken as a form of opposition.

A problem I see with {{Format linkr}} is that it would leave template code in the section title, which would ruin the section link in summaries (see e.g. [5]). I'll see if we could use safesubst. Nardog (talk) 00:04, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

Fixed said problem in /sandbox. Reactivate it if you want. I prefer to let another editor review it instead of rolling it out myself. (@Psiĥedelisto: Btw, please do not use <tt>...</tt> as it's deprecated. See WP:HTML5#tt for alternatives—there are also {{tlx}}, {{tltt}}, etc.) Nardog (talk) 00:52, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

Okay, reactivated Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 02:25, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

 Done Mdaniels5757 (talk) 19:46, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Fish eye image

Following up from the discussion above, the current image, File:Farm-Fresh_eye.png, is overly skeumorphic and thus seems outdated. I'd suggest switching to File:Symbol watching blue lashes.svg, so that we'd have instead of . Thoughts? {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 22:21, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Courtesy pings @Maile66 and RightCowLeftCoast: {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 22:22, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the ping. I am neither opposed or supportive of it. Please see is more of a FYI or request additional editors attention. So I can see having the eye for the see aspect, but would be OK with another symbol that maybe suggested.--RightCowLeftCoast (Moo) 01:05, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

@Sdkb: Why not a simple ? Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 17:50, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Psiĥedelisto, since the template will be going on talk pages, I'm not sure having a talk symbol would add any visual information. The eye at least connotes a specific type of talk page post. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 22:04, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

@Sdkb: Hmm. What about or ? Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 22:06, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Psiĥedelisto, hmm, it's nice to have several options to consider, but I can't say I'd prefer either of those two. The email image implies more private communication and would fit better somewhere like {{You've got mail}}, and the person with the message bubble still has the issue of symbolizing only "talk", which is already a given at a talk page. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 22:27, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

@Sdkb: OK, sure. I guess my problem is that I'm having a really hard time seeing , due to low contrast, (sorry, bad eyesight) but I'm not against an eye, or even the current eye. How about ? Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 22:53, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Psiĥedelisto, the low contrast is definitely a concern we should address for accessibility; anyone want to edit File:Symbol watching blue lashes.svg? We could also make it larger, as in ; would that look better? {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 22:57, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

@Sdkb: I can see it a bit better, and do like the bigger version, even if I edit it. If I edit it, I'll make the inner eye take on the colors of , except with a green iris for increased visibility. Are you all right with that? Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 23:05, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Psiĥedelisto, yep, that sounds good! {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 23:11, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

@Sdkb: Voilà: Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 23:44, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Follow-up

Does anyone else want to weigh in here? I think the image Psiĥedelisto has designed is an improvement on the status quo, so if there are no objections, I'll implement it in a few days. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 23:03, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

 Done {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 02:18, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Creepy icon

@Sdkb: The eye icon is very creepy and discomforting. Please use megaphone icon instead of the creepy eye icon. the purpose will be better served that way.--Walrus Ji (talk) 03:41, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Hi Walrus Ji! This discussion is from a few months ago. If you'd like to change the icon again, I would suggest finding a specific megaphone icon to propose as an alternative and starting a new section below. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 06:01, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

I kinda agree. I think it's the eyelashes that particularly make it disturbing. Nardog (talk) 15:11, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Error handling

This template doesn't currently have any way of error handling (i.e. displaying an error message if you forget to include a page or some other mistake). I took a stab at adding that here, but the template's code is such a mess, it'd be good if someone else looked it over (and ideally simplified the template's code overall) before making a request to implement. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 23:41, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

@Sdkb: Well, have you given up on the above edit request? Because this broke it. You could have made a new sandbox, /sandbox2; popular templates like {{Citation}} do it all the time. Please move this to /sandbox2 and restore revision 964475497. Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 17:52, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Psiĥedelisto, I still support your edit request. They don't normally take this long to get answered, so I'm not sure what's causing the backlog. Regarding the sandbox, I did refactor above so that the link goes to the permanent revision for your request, so it should hopefully be fine, but let me know if there is some remaining issue. I'm not sure how much of a consensus there is behind the idea of having multiple sandboxes for a template, but it's something I think we generally ought to avoid. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 04:38, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

@Sdkb: Ah, yes, okay. Well, this issue is now moot, but FYI, I had gotten used to using the template as {{subst:please see/sandbox|...}}. So that was the reason I complained, sorry, did not really check if you broke my ER, just assumed as the sandbox stopped working. In re: multiplicity of sandboxes, doesn't seem a big deal to me. We do it in module space all the time, since you can't put modules in user space. Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 21:52, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Buggy section parameter

@Mdaniels5757 and Psiĥedelisto: Did the edits in #Template-protected edit request in re Template:format linkr affect the use of the section parameter? The documentation is... weird, but I can't seem to add |section= without adding ]] to the end of the location and the header (if not explicitly provided). ~ Amory (u • t • c) 12:59, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

@Amorymeltzer: Yeah, that looks to be an error. Looks like I fixed it in the sandbox, but mind double-checking before I push Special:Diff/969669761/977544361 live? Best, —‍Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 13:43, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

Mdaniels5757, that seems to fix that issue.

More broadly, is the idea to deprecate/remove the section parameter entirely? Something like {{subst:Please see/sandbox|location=User talk:Amorymeltzer|section=Slartibartfast}} doesn't work as I'd expect, but from the documentation I can't tell if it was ever supposed to. It's not clear that section does anything, unless piped is also given. That seems wrong? ~ Amory (u • t • c) 18:14, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

Mdaniels5757, I've gone and put your fix in. What do you think about the section stuff, though? ~ Amory (u • t • c) 11:11, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

@Amorymeltzer: Sorry for missing your earlier ping. I have no clue what is up with the "section" parameter, to be honest--I don't have an opinion on it. —‍Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 14:32, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Move hidden comment before signature?

I think the hidden comment coming after the signature is what's causing this to make duplicate signatures with the new discussion tool. Would it be alright to move it before the signature? {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 23:54, 25 January 2022 (UTC)