Template talk:Liverpool to Manchester Lines

St Helens railway

Liverpool to Manchester Lines
St Helens Junction Sankey for Penketh to Wigan via St Helens Lea Green to Liverpool via Garston Rainhill Widnes St Helens Junction Sankey for Penketh to Altrincham via Warrington Arpley to Wigan via St Helens Lea Green Widnes South Widnes Rainhill to Liverpool via Garston St Helens Junction Sankey for Penketh to Wigan via St Helens to Runcorn Gap Lea Green Widnes Widnes Central Rainhill to Wigan and WCML Hough Green

I have just noticed that the junction with the St Helens railway and the current souther route is wrong. The St Helenes route connected to the line even further South than current it runs from Ditton Junction on the line to Runcorn to Warrington Bank Quay Low Level, then on to Manchester. as far as I know there was no connection with the CLC line. --Kitchen Knife (talk) 23:58, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

As I see it, the section you dispute is that shown upper right. This seems to agree with

• Conolly, W. Philip (1976). British Railways Pre-Grouping Atlas and Gazetteer (5th ed.). Shepperton: Ian Allan. p. 45, section D4. ISBN 0 7110 0320 3. EX/0176. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help); Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)

although it could be an illusion caused by the imperfect colour registration found in most printings of the 5th Edition. However, this map from 1909 shows the St. Helens line as crossing over the direct CLC route (that through Farnworth) and under the GC&Mid Joint line (that via Widnes Central) before joining the Garston - Warrington Arpley - Altrincham line. Therefore, do you think that the version lower right is more correct? --Redrose64 (talk) 16:35, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

I think the lower one is correct. As Per

.--Kitchen Knife (talk) 17:30, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Though the far south line is still in use for freight.--Kitchen Knife (talk) 17:34, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Corrected to include the infomation that one line is still in use for freight (incidentally it was probably my error made when I was less experienced than now. Sorry. Britmax (talk) 18:25, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Since Jowett backs up this layout I'll put it into the template.

No need to apologise. The lines around there are a complete nightmare.--Kitchen Knife (talk) 19:09, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

One minor point according to Runcorn Gap the south most crossing is a flat crossing, not a bridge.--Kitchen Knife (talk) 20:02, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Actually ignore that I'm confused.--Kitchen Knife (talk) 20:07, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

It's more like this. I'm working on my page to do something with close parallel but will have to stop for the night soon. Britmax (talk) 21:01, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

This has stopped making sense now. I'll try again tomorrow. Britmax (talk) 21:15, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Right. An even more careful look tells me that the St Helens line loop (which would be to the right of this diagram) was not directly connected to the Liverpool and Manchester lines, although the layout of the loop that did exist has changed. There is therefore no need to show anything here apart from the St Helens and Runcorn Gap Railway heading that way. A look at the on the article for Ann Street (the line "Ann Street at Disused Stations") will show what I mean. Britmax (talk) 10:31, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Possibly a confusing factor is that the station now known as Widnes is the one shown in the RDT diagram here as "Farnworth". Britmax (talk) 12:12, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

You are right on that one. I think it is correct now, the St Helen's Railway Warrington to Garstang line was irrelevant.--Kitchen Knife (talk) 16:23, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

GMEX

Needs changing from GMEX to Deansgate-Castlefield Metrolink station though I warn you the long name will mess up the template. WatcherZero (talk) 13:09, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

As I only displayed "Deansgate-Castlefield" it didn't. Thanks for the warning, though. Britmax (talk) 21:15, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Liverpool Road

How about showing the original Manchester terminus on the chat moss diagram (Liverpool Road - now disused of course) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.152.227.147 (talk) 12:42, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Suggested improvements

Looking at this I have some suggestions for improvements to be made:

1) The Metrolink line should be shown crossing under the railway just above the Man U railway station.

2) The destinations of the Metrolink should be updated to include the lines to East Didsbury and Manchester Airport rather than just Altrincham.

3) Deansgate station and Deansgate-Castlefield tram stop should be shown as being linked.

I would do it myself. I had a go but it was too complicated for me. G-13114 (talk) 20:40, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

 Done. Useddenim (talk) 01:57, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Junction to Salford Quays

The major junction that led down to the docks at Salford Quays is missing. Seen overhead here. Once it linked to 50 miles worth of track and sidings, now it's just a short spur that ends at Tarmac's Cement Depot. Still it's worth adding as it was once the main branch to the dock-side railways.86.129.3.207 (talk) 22:36, 1 May 2017 (UTC)