Template talk:Country data Switzerland

CHpantone variant

What is the point of this variant in this country data template? Per WP:WikiProject Flag Template conventions, we only add image variants to country_data templates (especially high-use ones) if they are actually needed in icon form. Country data templates are not image galleries, nor a substitute for article content such as Flag of Switzerland. This variant has only ever been used on a single user page, so I fail to understand why the country data template ought to carry this burden on the 18,266 pages that currently transclude this template... — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 20:01, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

If the template is causing uncalled elements of itself to needlessly load, that may be a software design flaw which could (and likely should) be fixed. However, verification that this is happening would be helpful and if it's indeed a worry, there are easy ways to handle it in the meantime. Gwen Gale (talk) 06:31, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

I would hardly claim that WP:Template limits are a "software design flaw which could (and likely should) be fixed". The post-expand include size is inherently part of the MediaWiki implementation. Frequently, articles in Category:Pages where template include size is exceeded are there because of extensive usage of flag templates, which is why one of the goals of this WikiProject is to keep these country data templates as minimal as possible. There is consensus to only include images that are actually used in icon form within the encyclopedia.

But you side-stepped my question of why do you think this image variant must be part of this country data template if it is never used in any encyclopedic content? The lone instance in any namespace for this variant is on your user page, and as I tried to show you, there are alternate ways of achieving the same result. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 08:03, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Truth be told, I'm not sidestepping a thing. First things first, would you please cite verification that the "post-expand include size" indeed carries un-needed server loads on high-use templates, even with all the caching implemented these days? If this is happening, it's indeed a software flaw. However, as I said earlier, there are ways to skirt this if it's a worry, for which I've yet to see verification. This said, please see Wikipedia:Don't_worry_about_performance. Gwen Gale (talk) 08:21, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

"Cite verification"... Really? Isn't it plainly obvious that download time is proportional to page size? "Ways to skirt this"... Please elaborate. And you still haven't answered my question. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 15:03, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

I read WP:Template limits early today and all it says is, too many templates on a page can cause worries, it doesn't say unused, optional template parameters cause any more load at all, or any increase in the counter tallies. Moreover, since an unused parameter is not used and doesn't load content onto the displayed page, I see no hint that it slows anything down at all. If you can cite verification that optional and unused template parameters increase load, increase download times, or increase counter tallies, please do. Are you a programmer for MediWiki or a server/software sysadmin for the project?

As I said on your talk page before, the Pantone colour is one of two hues officially defined and published by the Swiss federal government. Moreover, the template was changed without discussion.

Lastly, this fix which you tried to make to my user page, without talking to me about it first, was sloppy and careless in that it broke the link. Gwen Gale (talk) 17:47, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

I am a professional software engineer (computer engineering degree), but not employed by the Foundation, if that matters. I just ran a test and verified there is a reduction (by 1) in the preprocessor node count if the CHpantone variant is removed. Therefore, there is a tangible benefit to the other 18,000 pages that transclude Template:Country data Switzerland if the unused variant is removed.

The comment about "two hues officially defined and published by the Swiss federal government" is a red herring. That makes for interesting text in the Flag of Switzerland article, but it is irrelevant when determing if a variant should be added to a country data template. If it isn't needed for use with {{flagicon}} et. al. within the encyclopedia, it shouldn't be there.

You chastise me for changing the template without discussion first, but your edit to add the variant wasn't done without discussion either, so that strikes me as equal amounts of boldness. No need to get upset about my actions; we are in a classic BRD situation.

If you want a less "sloppy and careless" edit to your talk page, try <span class="flagicon">[[File:Flag of Switzerland (Pantone).svg|22x20px|border|alt=Switzerland|link=Switzerland]]</span>. That will provide the hidden image link. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 18:57, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Sounds like a software flaw (not a feature) to me, but as I said, there are ways to skirt this for now (or "forever"), as has been done. Thanks for the line of code, it saved me a minute or two. Although I think both published and defined hues belong in the template, if there's a wider need for the Pantone hue, it can always be put back in the template. Gwen Gale (talk) 19:25, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

I think there's a good argument to make the modified Pantone colours the default for File:Flag of Switzerland.svg as it just looks better! That would affect all transclusions of this template. But I can't see a good reason to have two colour choices for flag templates specifically. This is the same reason why Template:Country data Poland only includes File:Flag of Poland.svg and not also File:Flag of Poland (normative).svg, File:Flag of Poland (pure white and red).svg, and File:Flag of Poland corrected.svg. (That's only one of many instances where edit-wars have ensued over flag image colours, resulting in multiple versions on Commons!) I'm glad you agree, thanks 20:03, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Ok, you've got me wondering, why not swap the Pantone back in as the default? Yeah, the Swiss gov does use FF0000 for flags online but that doesn't mean en.WP can't use the Pantone hue, which is also defined (albeit for print) and looks much more like Swiss flags do to the eye. I don't think it would stir up much kerfluffle and if it did, it's a snap to undo. Gwen Gale (talk) 20:15, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Yes, easy enough to change here. But one look at the upload history of File:Flag of Switzerland.svg on Commons and I'd wager that a kerfluffle would indeed ensue! — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 20:28, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Ew, yeah. Alas, not worth "the burn," I guess. Gwen Gale (talk) 20:37, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Proposed source adjustment to edit default size

I propose the template source be updated with this content, to specify a new default size. Currently, Flag/core defines default size for all flags to be 22x20, which results in Switzerland flag being displayed at 20x20, which is too tall compared to flags like Canada's 22x11. In addition, if we change the default size here, {{Flag|Switzerland}} and {{CHE}} can have the same sized flags. --Bxj (talk) 06:57, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Bxj, 4 August 2011

See section above. Bxj (talk) 08:57, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Done. Does Nepal need the same treatment? Ucucha 23:34, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

I have reverted this request. The flag template system does not work this way; you need to specifically use the size= parameter of {{flagicon}} etc. to make this work properly for all templates that rely on this meta-template. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 16:19, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 13 March 2013

Hi, could you please add a section with "Historical cantons", somewhere under "Other information" and list {{Country data Unterwalden}}. Maybe have "Current cantons" and "Historical cantons" sections. I am planning to create other as well. See also the bottom of {{Cantons of Switzerland}} for the other historical cantons. Thanks! --Codrin.B (talk) 20:48, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Codrin.B (talk) 20:48, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Not done: Please see WP:PER#General considerations particularly points 2 and 4. See also WP:TESTCASES and put your proposed new version at Template:Country data Switzerland/sandbox, and use Template:Country data Switzerland/testcases to demonstrate it. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:43, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Reduce default size

From August 2011: #Proposed source adjustment to edit default size.

For years, the Swiss flag-icon size, left blank to default to x20px, has seemed too tall in many pages (as square: 20x20px), while x17px would align better near flags with 2:3 ratio shown as 22x15px, within default size 22x20px. The /sandbox sets the default size as x17px, as shown in the following example:

• Aligning flags in text:     Original size x20px here:

By reducing the default size of the Swiss-flag icon, then it can better align with other flags within the line-height of the text, where the flag will be centered up/down, one pixel lower than other flags on the line. The proposal is to set the default size of just the Swiss-flag icon as x17px, reduced from x20px, as also requested 2 years ago, on 3 August 2011 (above). -Wikid77 (talk) 00:07, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Flag icons are rarely used where vertical alignment is desirable, as in your example. They are almost always used in veritcal tables and lists where the associated text needs to be left-aligned, such as:

Italy

Switzerland (standard)

France

Switzerland (17px)

Germany

Switzerland {{CHE}}

Austria

Italy

Switzerland (standard)

France

Switzerland (17px)

Germany

Switzerland {{CHE}}

Austria

The text alignment is much worse using your proposed size. The best solution is to add padding, which is what we did in {{CHE}} (or {{SUI}} if you prefer the FIFA/IOC country code over the ISO country code) a few years ago, as an alternative to using {{flag|Switzerland}}. But adding that padding within Template:flagicon/core et. al. for a handful of corner cases like Switzerland and Nepal is difficult—or worse. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 01:49, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

I support 15px height for all flagicons. Only 3 of all national flags will be affected.

These lines are increased because of current settings at Template:Flagicon

Switzerland (default 20px)

Nepal (default 20px)

Vatican City (default 20px)

equal height of lines with x15px flagicons

Switzerland

Nepal

Vatican City

Italy

China

Austria

Maiō T. (talk) 11:49, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Correct Swiss Flag

Would somebody be so kind to change the tiny Swiss Flag to a correct version, please. Otherwise I feel constantly embarassingly distressed when I have to look e.g. at a list with a Swiss flag on Wikipedia! ;-))

And no, it's not about the side lengths, at least not of the flag itself. It is just the wrong cross (besides the possibly not totally correct colour): The cross is too slim, too slopy!

correct cross (but probably not the colour, LOL):

vice versa:

Wrong: Switzerland

Englarge your screen, and you will easily recognize it.

The correct instructions defined by the Swiss Federal Administration you find here, on page 22-23 for the proportions, and on page 37-38 for the corporate colours

Thank you very much, indeed!

-- ZH8000 (talk) 03:58, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

The two images are actually exactly the same, save for the shade of red ( vs. ). I don't know exactly which color is correct/official, but it seems that, much like on the Australian flag, the red color should be #f00 for digital renderings and a specific Pantone shade for real flags. SiBr₄ (talk) 10:51, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

This is a Commons image (and a Commons issue). This discussion belongs at commons:File talk:Flag of Switzerland.svg. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 16:28, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 18 June 2014

I note that when this template is used in List of countries by population, it generates "  Switzerland " for the name, whereas all the other country templates generate " Countryname ". That is, the name has two leading spaces instead of one.

Thus, when I copied and pasted the table content to a spreadsheet, Switzerland sorted out of position.

I can't see how to fix this - the template looks the same as the Tajikistan template, which generates one leading space. But there must be a reason. Perhaps a template expert can fix it.

(On further inspection, the same thing seems to happen with Vatican City, and Nepal has three leading spaces.) Rich Rostrom (Talk) 04:43, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

This is intentional and is an attempt to better align names after flag icons by inserting spaces after narrow icons. The spaces are actually added in {{Flag/core}}, not here.

I attempted to make a template where all names align correctly in the sandbox earlier this month but it doesn't work perfectly yet. SiBr₄ (talk) 07:14, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Two spaces???

Why are two spaces between the flag and the country name. In the other country flag templates is only one space to see. Leonprimer (talk) 11:43, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

See my reply here (or the section right above this one for that matter). SiBr₄ (talk) 19:49, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

Thoughts about adding a new equal space icon variant

In accordance with previous discussions and keeping alignment, I have an proposition for adding a variant flag. This would be the same proportion of the other countries flags, with the Swiss square centered in the middle with transparent space on the left and right. This variant could then be used in situations needing alignment that should be cleaner than extra spaces. DLManiac (talk) 22:11, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 31 October 2022

Please change the flag icon to the Pantone version, thank you 2601:483:4C00:5470:88E0:36C2:B742:78E7 (talk) 22:04, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

 Completed. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 23:29, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Increasing the "sizebig" parameter to 25 pixels

The Switzerland flag icons are small (compared to others) so they should be one pixel larger than the defaults. Therefore, I propose to increase the "sizebig" parameter to 25 pixels. Currently, the height parameters are set as follows:

	Template {{Flagicon}}	Template {{Flagbig}}
Default	15px	24px
Switzerland	16px	22px

Those 22 pixels are very weird. What do you think? Maiō T. (talk) 14:42, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

I've been waiting for half a year and no one has answered. Probably no one is against. So I'll wait another half a year and if no one is against, I'll change it to 25 pixels. Maiō T. (talk) 12:22, 24 June 2024 (UTC)