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Template:Did you know nominations/Empress Elisabeth Bridge

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 22:39, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

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Empress Elisabeth Bridge

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Created by Gerda Arendt (talk). Self-nominated at 09:55, 3 August 2019 (UTC).

  • Article is new enough, long enough, and well referenced. Did some minor tweaks and fixes. DYK is ling enough and from the article, however I wonder whether it is DYK-y enough. Perhaps ALT1 ... that the Empress Elisabeth Bridge (pictured), opened in 1855, it was the first chain bridge over the Elbe? which would require a reference right after that statement in the article. Image is used in the article and appropriately licensed. QPQ done, so otherwise good to go. Constantine ✍ 13:17, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
Thank you for the review! I'm not so interested in "first" in hooks, more in clicks on chain bridge, - and year and style if pictured should suggest that anyway. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:46, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
Hi Gerda Arendt, not to belabour the point, but we've both been here before, having to argue with the DYK closers that an interesting and little-known fact is not "hooky" enough. I am simply interested in avoiding this unnecessary drama, and the ALT1 does not really depart that much from the original. If you insist on ALT0, I will consent to it, of course. Constantine ✍ 16:13, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
You are right, but some promoters rather complain about too many "first" hooks. I suggest we wait and see. Any bridge that year across a large river should be "hooky". I prefer that to the sensation of the fire, and the unusual fact that the pillars were kept when the new bridge was built. If you like the "first" a lot, please go agead and add, and have someone else review, - no deadline here. Today is the day I got a nom approved that was supposed to appear on 23 May on the subjects birthday ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:20, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
As I said, no problem on my part. Marking this as good to go. Constantine ✍ 06:56, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Hi, I came by to promote ALT0, but all it says is "Did you know that X=Y". It sounds like there are other unusual facts you could mention, especially if you want an image slot. Yoninah (talk) 22:11, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
  • We could say "first" (see above) which I tried avoid especially for you ;) - At that time, and that large river, it was sensational without "first". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:03, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
@Yoninah and Gerda Arendt: Would this be okay? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 20:15, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
Sorry, no. I'd prefer to speak about the endavour to build it, which was in Tetschen, Austria-Hungary. - I'd like to mention chain bridge (new article), and Elbe as a known river. The German Wikipedia manage to have it pictured ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:22, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
If you want to use that collaboration as the hook fact, it will need to be elaborated on in the article as endeavor only seems to be given a passing mention. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 21:06, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
It's not a hook proposal, just an explanation why I prefer building to demolishing. I can't write more than the source does. "My" hook is the original, short facts, - I was so happy to keep it short, for a change. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:19, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Gerda, ALT0 is not a hook, it's a statement of fact. If you want the image slot, please come up with something eye-catching. Yoninah (talk) 21:47, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
I think I must miss something because so far I thought the eye-catchy thing in the image slot would be the image. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:52, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
If wordiness i needed:
ALT2: ... that the Empress Elisabeth Bridge (pictured), a chain bridge opened in 1855, was built to connect Tetschen to the new railway on the other bank of the Elbe?
The new hook still sounds like a "statement of fact", and it might be a good idea to specify which country Děčín/Tetschen since non-Europeans might not be able to get the hook. Otherwise, I think it might still be a better option to try to write a hook about what Gerda was saying above regarding the country collaborations. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 23:18, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
I didn't talk about country collaboration. When it was built it was Austria Hungary, only in 1918 it became Czech Republic. The collaboration between industry and nobility is sort of intereting, but we know already from an earlier hook that Münzberg was instrumental. I tried to keep the location out of the hook because people will not know the place, but they will probably know Elbe, or see on the image that it's large. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:07, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
I tried to keep the location out of the hook because people will not know the place. If this is the case, then it's probably a good idea to mention the country, specifically because readers would otherwise not know the location and thus might appreciate the hook less. ALT2 might work if there was some mention of countries there, though other suggestions are also welcome. Yoninah Do you have any other possible ideas on what could be used as a hook? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 10:30, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
Do you think the mentioning of "Austria-Hungary" (both banks then) would really add interest? Shouldn't we make curious to find out where? Repeating: that kind of bridge at that time (anywhere) is unusual. The most famous of them was built in 1949, only a few year earlier, and can still be admired today. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:39, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
I can look at this later. Gerda, often you can craft a good hook by saying that it's unusual, rather than rely on the facts alone to educate the reader. Yoninah (talk) 10:58, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
I've just been reading this and linked articles, and it seems that, in 1855, Tetschen and Bodenbach were in the Austrian Empire, and the Austro-Hungarian Empire was not formed until 1867. RebeccaGreen (talk) 01:01, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
ALT3: ... that the Empress Elisabeth Bridge (pictured), a chain bridge over the Elbe which opened in 1855, was named in honor of the newly married Elisabeth of Austria?
If you think it's OK, I can ping other editors too, but not if you don't like it. RebeccaGreen (talk) 11:59, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
I like it ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:05, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
I like it too. Yoninah (talk) 12:08, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
Constantine, Narutolovehinata5, as you have been involved in this discussion before, would ALT3 be acceptable? and if so, would someone like to approve it? RebeccaGreen (talk) 12:28, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
Sounds good to me. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 12:29, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
ALT 3 good to go Kingsif (talk) 21:54, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
  • The ALT3 hook fact is not mentioned or cited in the article. Yoninah (talk) 11:49, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
Rebecca, could you please add that to the article? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:07, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
Yoninah: Sorry I didn't notice that! The first source states that the bridge was named after the Empress Elizabeth, so I have placed a citation after that fact. I have added after that the words "who had become Empress on her marriage to Emperor Franz Joseph I in 1854", with a reference to a book about Franz Joseph I which is online at Google Books. I hope that will be sufficient. RebeccaGreen (talk) 12:44, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Thank you. Restoring tick per Kingsif's review. Yoninah (talk) 22:37, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
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