Talk:William Ferrers, 3rd Baron Ferrers of Groby

A curious deletion

RHaworth, several years ago I seem to have created a page called William Ferrers, 3rd Baron Ferrers of Groby, and I now see this in my list of pages created:

• "William Ferrers, 3rd Baron Ferrers of Groby · (Deleted) · (Recreated) 2013-06-01 01:13"

Clicking on that "Deleted", I get this:

• "(Deleted) 2017-08-30 17:01 (RHaworth): G7: One author who has requested deletion or blanked the page – If you wish to retrieve it, please see WP:REFUND"

A new page was begun from scratch by Serial Number 54129 exactly one minute later, at 17:02, on 30 August 2017 (see here).

I am mystified by this. Can either of you throw any light on what was going on? Many thanks, Moonraker (talk) 16:12, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Hi Moonraker, you summon, I appear  :) this does sound odd! The speedy deletion criterion RHaworth deleted this under appears to be G7—that usually means the page's creator asks for it to be deleted when there have been no major contributions from other editors. Did you not request its deletion then? I'm afraid I can hardly what happened last month, let alone early 2 years ago! ——SerialNumber54129 16:13, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Also, on a more meta-issue, although I understand why you removed your message from RHaworth's talk, in the event of a contested or queried deletion, the deleting admin's talk page is the first port of call  :) so you did right in the first place. Just an FYI. ——SerialNumber54129 16:17, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Hi Serial Number 54129 and thank you for the advice and coming along so quickly. I was not sure of the protocol but thought the message might seem offensive on someone's user page. I also don't have total recall, but I can answer your question, as I have never asked for a page to be deleted. I am hoping RHaworth will be able to look at the request to delete and see who it was from. I wonder if I may have created a redirect, but if so it is not clear to me why anyone would need to delete it. Do you generally ask for existing redirects to be deleted before starting an article? Moonraker (talk) 16:24, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

@Moonraker: No problem whatsoever! RH gets left far worse messages than yours  :) To answer your question, no, I don't—at least I don't now and I hope I didn't then! Here's an example of something that I effectively wrote—although admittedly from a year later—but it lists DGG as the creator as I just wrote it straight onto the redirect, if you get my drift. ——SerialNumber54129 16:35, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Here's what the deleted revisions look like:

(diff) 17:00, 30 August 2017 . . Dw122339 (talk | contribs | block) 13 bytes
(diff) 16:57, 30 August 2017 . . Serial Number 54129 (talk | contribs | block) (empty) (r) Tag: Visual edit
(diff) 16:25, 29 August 2017 . . Smjg (talk | contribs | block) 36 bytes (no content - restore redirect)
(diff) 12:20, 29 August 2017 . . Serial Number 54129 (talk | contribs | block) 10 bytes (fmt)
(diff) 09:37, 29 August 2017 . . Serial Number 54129 (talk | contribs | block) 11 bytes (+template)
(diff) 09:37, 29 August 2017 . . Serial Number 54129 (talk | contribs | block) (empty) (Rm circular redirect.)
(diff) 01:13, 1 June 2013 . . Moonraker (talk | contribs | block) 35 bytes (←Redirected page to Baron Ferrers of Groby) 

The last edit, by Dw122339, is just a "db-author" tag. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 16:36, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Aaah, because I blanked the page of course, NRP? I don't suppose you can tell me what I was doing @09:37 (x2) and 12:20, though? ——SerialNumber54129 16:45, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Many thanks, NinjaRobotPirate, that's most helpful. So I did create a redirect, and Serial Number 54129 was editing it a few minutes before it was deleted. But who is Dw122339? I am still not seeing who else would have asked for it to be deleted. Moonraker (talk) 16:51, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

@Moonraker: Ah, I see—I forgot that a G7 deletion doesn't need someone to actively "ask" for it—it is intimated that when someone blanks a page they created—as I did with the 16:57 edit—they are asking for deletion. So Dw122339 tagged it as such. My fault that. Although I'm quite keen to know what I was thinking with "Rm circular redirect", etc. ——SerialNumber54129 16:55, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

At 09:37, SN54129 blanked the page. The second 09:37 edit added {{in use}}. At 12:20, SN54129 fixed a typo in the aforementioned template. It was Dw122339 who added the db-author template, after the page had been blanked twice. SN54129 probably intended to write an article but got distracted. Dw122339 was probably just trying to figure out what was going on. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 17:00, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

And, as they say, there you have it. That's almost certainly the correct interpretation, and of course, my state of distraction has continued ever since! :) many thanks for looking in here, NinjaRobotPirate, and apologies to you, Moonraker for causing all this confusion in the first place! ——SerialNumber54129 17:12, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

But Serial Number 54129 I still do not see why you were tinkering with the redirect when you were on the point of starting an article on the subject. That edit summary, "Rm circular redirect", when deleting "#redirect[[Baron Ferrers of Groby]]", can you say why that redirect was "circular" and what it was you did not like? Why not simply begin your article? (And taking a quick look at Dw122339, I see not the ghost of a reason why he/she would be watching that redirect or taking any interest in it.) Moonraker (talk) 17:31, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Well, I had to remove the redirect in order to start the article! ——SerialNumber54129 17:34, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

So now we have it, although in fact there was no need for that. "To answer your question, no, I don't—at least I don't now and I hope I didn't then!" ... I guess that was what we could call deniable. But where does Dw122339 come in? Did he oblige on such occasions, or is he a sockpuppet? Moonraker (talk) 17:58, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

@Moonraker: I've been reasonable with you, even with the growing suspicion that you don't understand basic Wikipedia policies and guidelines. But now you have gone too far. You will either retract that calumnity and your bullshit about socks or you will file an SPI. Or would you prefer we continue this conversation at ANI? Because I'm sure as hell not continuing it here. ——SerialNumber54129 20:17, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Serial Number 54129 I see nothing to retract. I have asked reasonable questions and had no answers yet. One of them was whether Dw122339 is a sockpuppet, I have pinged him or her, and no reply has yet come. Another was in what way you say a redirect from William Ferrers, 3rd Baron Ferrers of Groby to Baron Ferrers of Groby was "circular" and what you did not like about it. I get the impression you do not wish to reply to that, but if I am wrong and you have a reasonable answer please do give it. ANI is for "urgent incidents and chronic, intractable behavioral problems". I do not think you are saying you are an Admin? There is nothing on your user page to say you are. Moonraker (talk) 20:58, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

@Moonraker: all of your questions have been answered. Drop this, or I'll block you for making unsubstantiated personal attacks. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 21:37, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

• I wrecked this conversation by editing an out of date version - see this diff. Now I have reverted this talk to the latest, pre me and Serial Number 54129 state, I am amazed at what an enormous fuss over such a trivial matter. All edits to the article page have been restored. Enjoy and stop fussing. — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 15:06, 3 April 2019 (UTC)