Talk:Vulnerable residential area (Denmark)

New article title

I have moved the article's title from "Ghetto (Denmark)" to "Particularly vunerable public housing areas (Denmark)" which is the more formal appellation for these areas used by the Danish authorities (per sources cited). I consider this move to be uncontroversial, as the English word "ghetto" is clearly loaded language in this context and obviously raises WP:NPOV issues. (I am of course assuming good faith, and am not accusing any editor of POV.) The word "ghetto" is widely used in the Danish language to describe these areas, including by the Danish authorities, and in the Danish sources cited in the article. However the word has very negative connotations in English, and the article offers no citations in English to justify its use in English. Where I have found potential English language sources, they nearly always use the word in quotation marks or in formulations such as "so-called ghettos". In terms of Wikipedia policy, WP:NPOVNAME applies. Non-neutral article names are sometimes permissible, but in this case the use of "ghetto" in English is a colloquialism and there is an obvious "more encyclopedic alternative". Tammbeck (talk) 12:11, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

Tammbeck is Particularly vunerable public housing areas the official name for these areas in English? If not, WP:COMMONNAME suggests the name should be Ghetto as this is the most commonly used and recognizable name for these areas. In particular per Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources) as such names will usually best fit the five criteria listed above. I wonder which sources translate the name of these areas to English? Kind regads, A Thousand Words (talk) 08:20, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

As it stands the article has no citations in English and the title is a translation of the title on Danish Wikipedia. If you can demonstrate that "a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources" use a different name, you may be able to reach a consensus at WP:RM. Tammbeck (talk) 08:45, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

Tammbeck WP:COMMONNAME applies to enWP and Danish-language sources. What articles happen to be named on daWP and translations by daWP names by editors does not dislodge WP:COMMONNAME. You cited WP:NPOVNAME above, but that policy applies to English-language sources. It therefore stands to reason that the name of the article should harmonize with the most common name in Danish sources, if you can't identify a source which provides an official translation to English. A Thousand Words (talk) 17:20, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Tammbeck The Local DK source you provided does not contain the phrase Particularly vulnerable public housing area, it instead invents some phrases like underprivileged area which isn't even a translation of udsatte boligområder, since underprivileged in English is not a translation of udsatte in Danish. So that source could be a victim of poor or opinionated journalism. Also, this is just one politician claiming the term is derogatory, while does prove that Ghetto is in common and official use. The article should therefore revert to its previous name. A Thousand Words (talk) 05:24, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Both potential titles have flaws but I am not strongly opposed to the former title now I have added the Dybvad paragraph for context. This needs to be opened up to other editors in my opinion, and the place to do that is WP:RM (assuming you want to formally propose a move). Incidentally I do have to declare an interest as I used to live at Mjølnerparken. You don't need to ping me - I'm watching this page. Tammbeck (talk) 07:28, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

On further thought, I requested a move to Ghetto (Denmark) at WP:RMT. WP:COMMONNAME probably trumps WP:NPOVNAME on this occasion. The page mover made a decision not to take the move to further discussion. Tammbeck (talk) 08:30, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

New article title, second round

The present text is partly obsolete, as "ghetto", "ghetto list" etc. has not been an official term since 2021. Also the organisation of the official annual lists have been changed in 2021, now comprising four different types of vulnerable social housing areas: "forebyggelsesområder" (prevention areas), "udsatte områder" (exposed areas, often rendered as vulnerable areas), "parallelsamfund" (parallel societies) and "omdannelsesområder" (redevelopment areas). The title of the article should be changed accordingly as it no longer refers to either an official term or to the generally accepted term in modern Danish usage. There does not seem to be an official term for all the four types collectively in Danish nor in English, but "vulnerable (residential) areas" is often used in English-language texts, e.g. here and here. I therefore propose that the title be changed to "Vulnerable residential area (Denmark)" or similar, like "Vulnerable social housing area (Denmark)", cf. the article Vulnerable area on similar officially appointed areas in Sweden. Does @Tammbeck or others have an opinion on this? Økonom (talk) 15:34, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

Hi and thanks for pinging me Økonom. I'd be happy to support a move to one of your suggestions or something similar. It really is time to move on from this "ghetto" terminology. Tammbeck^talk 16:10, 30 January 2023 (UTC)