Talk:University Canada West/Archive 2

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Association of Universities and Colleges of Canada

So this is the official discussion thread for the Association of Universities and Colleges of Canada related to University Canada West. So let's have at it. --Me-123567-Me (talk) 00:11, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Bwilkins wrote above (20:30, 31 August 2010), "Although I concur with its membership, claiming it to be a de facto accreditation body is false, and misleading. The constitution is clear"

In an edit summary, Bwilkins wrote, "It is correct; there is no de facto accreditation board nationally - understand the constitution please. AUCC is a voluntary membership" [1]

What constitution?

If it is voluntary, they why are we presenting it so prominently? --Ronz (talk) 00:28, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Any accreditation is also voluntary in many cases, depending on the relevant laws. I think we're presenting it prominently here because other articles do it as well. However, we need to remember other stuff exists. --Me-123567-Me (talk) 00:33, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

It seems then that the British Columbia Education Quality Assurance should be discussed first and with some explanation such as that which was removed here. BCEQA is the body that approved the school and allowed them to be designated a university, right? --Ronz (talk) 00:42, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

They would have made a recommendation to the Minister who would have made a final decision. He usually rubber stamps their decisions, but not always. --Me-123567-Me (talk) 00:59, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

This is not quite accurate. As I described and referenced in the "Program's Offered" section, the Degree Quality Assessment Board has a specific structure and specific responsibilities that are performed by that board, which then makes recommendations to the Ministry. The Educational Quality Assurance (EQU) program on the other hand, is a government program, according to their website http://www.bceqa.ca/about/eqa-bccie, run primarily by BCCIE: "EQA is a Government of British Columbia brand of quality for private and public post-secondary education in British Columbia, and will be administered on Government’s behalf by BCCIE [British Columbia Council for International Education]. The Ministry of Advanced Education and Labour Market Development sets all EQA policies, including eligibility requirements for EQA." Thus, the government bodies are not all really the same (the EQU is not the Degree Quality Assessment Board though they both do work under the guidelines of the Ministry of Advanced Education and the Degree Authorization Act). Signed, Questforneutrality (talk) 22:49, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

I have attached a journal article as a reference on the AUCC. It is the De Facto organization in Canada. It is voluntary only in so much as UCW knows they would be rejected. Nonetheless, international bodies dont recognizes degrees in Canada not affiliated with. Read the journal that I put as a reference to verify this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.225.136.84 (talk) 14:24, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for that. What do others think? --Ronz (talk) 15:56, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

The journal article is not from a true specialist, although my last edit (blindly reverted by the above editor) properly clarified the combination of two para's from that are key to the discussion, and even fixed the ref to a direct link to the paper that was delivered...right now the statement is useless. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 16:14, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Two questions then to move the discussion along:

• Is it expected that a Canadian university would be a part of Association of Universities and Colleges of Canada? In other words, are we positive that mention of AUCC is relevant?
• If so, then can we find at least one reliable, independent sources to describe AUCC and the importance of AUCC membership for Canadian universities? --Ronz (talk) 16:29, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Anon IP put in a good source to a report on the importance of the AUCC. I read it all. It was an interesting report. Irrelevant to what he was trying to cite, but about the AUCC top notch. Here is the link. Me-123567-Me (talk) 22:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

That's a paper presented to an international forum on education by the VP-Academic of a college. You're considering that an WP:RS? Consider the audience. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 10:08, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it is and now it is Mount Royal University. But yes, I do consider that a reliable source. It certainly meets the criteria for a reliable source. Although displayed in the Google viewer, it comes from their website. Me-123567-Me (talk) 12:38, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

of course, one of the blind reverts to the article the IP did was me correcting that reference away from Google. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 12:44, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

I thought the “Degree Accreditation In Canada” paper by Dave Marshall, PhD, was of considerable interest to this part of the issue. The paper concluded on page 20 that “there is a schism between these [long standing] standards of practice and provincial policies that bring into question the usefulness of the default accreditation processes that have existed in Canada for many years.” AUCC does mention on its website that it represents “95 Canadian public and private not-for-profit universities and university-degree level colleges.” This would automatically exclude this university since it is for-profit. http://www.aucc.ca/about_us/index_e.html

It seems the issue here becomes quite political. The Dave Marshall paper, if we have consensus that it is a worthy and un-biased source, warns that new forms of Canadian accreditation will need to surface to accommodate a growingly diverse university landscape. If AUCC only represents the interests of not-for-profit universities, then can we expect the for-profit University Canada West to be a member, and therefore, accredited? The EQA states plainly: "EQA and BCCIE do not replace existing quality assurance processes or create new regulatory structures or processes. EQA Designation is based on an institution having met established quality assurance standards that exist under government recognized frameworks, and on being in good standing with both the Ministry and the applicable quality assurance body." http://www.bceqa.ca/students/faq#5

So while the EQA is not an effective accreditation mechanism on its own, being recognized by it does represent a good standing with the Ministry. The Ministry, I have found, logically appears to be an accreditation mechanism on some level because the Minister has the power to revoke consent to use the word "university;" and therefore, revoke the right to grant degrees under B.C.'s Degree Authorization Act. This has actually occurred in British Columbia and more recently in New Brunswick in the case of Lansbridge University. Lansbridge was a for-profit university; and in 2007, the B.C. Minister of Advanced Education withdrew consent for after he, Murray Coell, hired an investigator. The university was found to be in breach of the standards set by the Degree Quality Assessment Board and was forced to cease awarding degrees. Lansbridge University remained open in New Brunswick until that office, on August 20, 2010, also received notification to cease granting degrees because the university failed to uphold the standards set by the Degree Granting Act of New Brunswick and the province's board that reviews all universities. The official Lansbridge University website outlining this situation is here: http://www.lansbridge.edu/ Wikipedia's page concerning this topic is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lansbridge_University A link to the hired investigator's report to the B.C.'s Minister is here: http://www.aved.gov.bc.ca/degree-authorization/documents/Lansbridge_Report.PDF A link to the Degree Authorization Act of British Columbia is here: http://www.bclaws.ca/EPLibraries/bclaws_new/document/ID/freeside/00_02024_01 Signed, Questforneutrality (talk) 01:21, 5 September 2010 (UTC)Questforneutrality (talk) 23:09, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Page protection?

I've started a discussion on the edit-warring here, but would it be best just to protect the page until we've better decided what should be on this page? --Ronz (talk) 17:31, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Can I have some consensus as to which version to protect ... (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 19:44, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

The version that will allow for the most discussion, but in this case semi-protection may be all that is needed. --Me-123567-Me (talk) 19:46, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

 Done (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 20:34, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't think semi-protection is necessary in this case. It's basically fine aside from that one IP. I'd suggest blocking the IP for a few weeks and unprotecting the page. Enigma^msg 22:08, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

He has been using a number of IP's in the past apparently ... (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 22:16, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

The other IPs mentioned have not edited since July or August 2009. So I don't think that's really a concern. Enigma^msg 03:17, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Programs Offered: Degree Quality Assessment Board does the leg work--Ministry of Advanced Education the authority.

My research does not suggest that this university offers 7 courses anymore. According to the UCAN website the current degree offerings are the following: 1. Bachelor of Arts in Media and Communications, 2. Bachelor of Commerce, and 3. Masters of Business Administration. From what I can see the two undergraduate degrees have completion options, and all of the degree programs have online options. http://www.ucan.ca/View/University_Programs/Bachelors_Degrees

I know the Degree Quality Assessment Board of British Columbia has been referenced on the main page and throughout this "Talk Page," but upon researching I have come to understand that its legitimacy as a government institution is quite relevant here. I also noticed there is no Wikipedia page dedicated to it. I am new to Wikipedia editing, so I want to describe my research and logic methods here rather than just putting it on the page. I ask that someone let me know if I am being properly thorough.

The Degree Quality Assessment Board, to quote from the Ministry of Advanced Education's website http://www.aved.gov.bc.ca/degree-authorization/board/welcome.htm, is the board that "reviews and makes recommendations to the Minister of Advanced Education and Labour Market Development on applications for:

•New degree programs and exempt status submitted by B.C. public post-secondary institutions and all degree programs submitted by private and out-of-province public post-secondary institutions. •Use of the word “university” submitted by private and out-of-province public post-secondary institutions. The board also recommends to the Minister of Advanced Education and Labour Market Development policies, criteria and guidelines that will apply for the purposes of giving, renewing or refusing consent/approval or attaching terms and conditions to consent."

Furthermore, according to the Degree Quality Assessment Board's 2008-2009 report http://www.aved.gov.bc.ca/degree-authorization/board/documents/DQAB_Annual_Report_2008-09.pdf, it is also the responsibility of the board to make recommendations to the Minister of Advanced Education regarding "renewal of consent for existing degree programs and consents for use of “university” under the Degree Authorization Act." Under the "Expert Reviewers" section of the report, to achieve its duties and measure an educational institution's quality, the Board hires external experts to review each institution in question and help advise the board, which is made up of 9 voting members and 3 non-voting members. In addition to this section of the report, the Degree Quality Assessment board "members and the external experts engaged by the board adhere to a Conflict of Interest and Confidentiality Policy which ensures that board members and external experts avoid any actual or perceived conflict of interest including that which might impair or impugn the independence, integrity or impartiality of the board."

Finally, this same 2008-2009 report, the most recent one posted on the Ministry's website, states that the Bachelor of Fine Arts degree program was withdrawn, and the Bachelor of Economics, Bachelor of Geography, and Bachelor of Heritage, Culture, and Tourism were revoked. Thus, this leaves only 3 distinct degree programs by my count: BA of Media and Communications, Bachelor of Commerce, and the MBA program. Suggesting more than 3 programs seems misleading. http://www.aved.gov.bc.ca/degree-authorization/board/documents/DQAB_Annual_Report_2008-09.pdf Signed, Questforneutrality (talk) 21:33, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Regarding a Wikipedia page for Degree Quality Assessment Board: The articles on the Canadian and British Columbian education systems are a bit hard to find. Some of them should be linked within this article. I'll track them down again and list them here if no one does first. --Ronz (talk) 02:37, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

• Education in Canada
• Universities in Canada
• Higher education in British Columbia

  I vaguely recall finding another at one point. --Ronz (talk) 16:35, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

First Step Towards Consensus?

I have made some substantial changes to the “Authorization” section. Hopefully, this brings some consensus. Experienced Wikipedians: If there are any wording issues please feel free to edit them. I suspect the research aspect is correct but perhaps incomplete or needlessly long (I don’t know I’m still learning).

If this section and the sections before are agreed upon, I suggest the "Criticism" section be tackled. It is poorly written. I have encountered that there are strong critics out there, but their views are currently not being expressed very well. While the reference to the Vancouver Sun is a good enough source, the 2004 Cautbulletin reference is where the Criticisms section gets its bulk. Is this a solid source? Also, quotes like, “The B.C. government's emphasis on allowing the expansion of private universities is a failed vision,” are in there, and they are inaccurate because the statement was made before a private university existed in B.C., and in the case of UCW, it has survived for the last 5 years. How can the appropriate and accurate criticisms be expressed? What are they exactly? I would say it is a political issue at heart: Public versus Private motives in advanced education. Is there more to this issue? Signed, Questforneutrality (talk) 02:10, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

No GMAT

I think something needs to be said about the lack of a GMAT requirement at a business school and the red flags it raises. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.241.196.36 (talk) 03:10, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

There's more than one school that doesn't require the GMAT, particularly in Quebec. It's not a red flag. Me-123567-Me (talk) 05:20, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Yes it is. Would you go to a school that did not require it? Name the schools in Qc. Also UCAN is clearly a scam. I feel very sorry for the poor south Asian immigrants (99% of their student popultaion) who actualy think they will get a job from this diploma mill. What a scam. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.241.196.36 (talk) 14:44, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Even if I accept your argument, you need a reliable source to back up their not using the GMAT. Otherwise it is original research. --Me-123567-Me (talk) 16:45, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Heck, there are high end US schools that don't require those types of exams for entry either. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 19:44, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

It seems that the University of Guelph, Athlabasca University, Royal Roads University, Vancouver Island University, and Laurentian University are all Canadian universities that do not require a GMAT according to this site http://www.canadian-universities.net/MBA/MBA_GMAT_Scores.html, but I could not determine if this is a reliable source. Questforneutrality (talk) 21:23, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

New info

Our IP friend has added in a bunch of stuff, some of it is referenced, the AUCC stuff however, is not mentioned in the reference, so I removed it. Dbrodbeck (talk) 20:36, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Private Career Training Agency

Please see here http://www.pctia.bc.ca/contact.htm it is an agency of the BC government, so I think the legitimacy question can be put to rest. Dbrodbeck (talk) 00:44, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Internet message boards as sources

Message boards and similar comments are not reliable sources. Wikipedia is not a place for scandal mongering. --Ronz (talk) 18:48, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Typically, no. However, the concept being sourced is that there is discontent. As such, it works. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 18:31, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Only as an unreliable, primary source... Hairhorn (talk) 19:16, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

I've removed it. Yes, this is a controversial institution, but the only way we have a chance of making this a neutral article is to insist upon reliable sources, and take great care when and how we use primary sources. --Ronz (talk) 20:37, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. Dbrodbeck (talk) 20:42, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

There are reliable sources for some of the issues involved, for example that the school announced the campus closure the day after the deadline for withdrawal without financial penalty. That could probably go in. Hairhorn (talk) 20:44, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Biased against the University

It is so biased against the university and I don't know why. Check out the page of Yorkville University. It is more professional in details. There are no comments or anything bad about the university. Wikipedia supposed to be pure details about what the subject is and NOT what someone thinks about the subject.Matrix 0003 (talk) 15:42, 20 July 2012 (UTC) Previous unsigned comment by Matrix 0003 (talk · contribs).

Removing sourced, unflattering facts about the school (your only edits so far) isn't really the way to eliminate a perceived bias in the entry. Hairhorn (talk) 15:39, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

This is considered Vandalism towards the school

The page is supposed to be an informative page for readers not forum where negative comments are constantly thrown out. I have checked the "Location" and said that the Victoria campus had closed, that is true it had closed so why put it there in the location section. "You gotta be kidding me right"? This page have been vandalized please make it right and make the site more informative not sort of a forum.Matrix 0003 (talk) 15:43, 20 July 2012 (UTC)Previous unsigned comment by Matrix 0003 (talk · contribs).

It's there because of the effect it had on "students", and is sourced. The article is neutrallly presenting the issues the "school" has had. Note, the word vandalism is probably a poor choice of words (✉→BWilkins←✎) 15:56, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

CMA accreditation

Cmabc.com has not been working the various times I've tried, begging 11 Oct. Please provide a copy of the information here so that we figure out how to use it properly and cite it properly. --Ronz (talk) 21:00, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Authorization - again

Regarding the repeated deletion of this information:

I see no problem removing the mention of the other UCW Academies, but the rest appears properly sourced.

If someone can provide sources showing that the information or sources are wrong or misleading, we should rewrite the relevant paragraphs. --Ronz (talk) 21:11, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Information Regarding The Eminata Group and Peter Chung

Technically this information is inaccurate. LearningWise Inc. is still the owner of the University, as stated in it's application with the Ministry of Advanced Education. All reference to the Eminata Group and Peter Chung should be removed.

The first paragraph should be edited to read: "University Canada West (UCW) is a private for-profit educational institution in British Columbia, Canada. University Canada West was established by David Strong, a former president of University of Victoria. Dr. Arthur Coren, is currently the president of the university. It is operated by LearningWise Inc." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.46.109.215 (talk • contribs) 23:56, 6 November 2012‎

The link you provided doesnt work.

There are many sources that make it clear that the connection is important, including:

• http://www.cbc.ca/thenational/indepthanalysis/gopublic/story/2011/03/14/bc-universityclosure.html
• http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/NewDelhi/Bogus-varsities-prey-on-Indian-students/Article1-944634.aspx
• http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/NewDelhi/Headhunters-feed-on-students-ambition/Article1-945098.aspx
• http://www.bclocalnews.com/news/117282543.html
• http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03/15/b-c-minister-resigns-from-cabinet-over-leaked-email/

--Ronz (talk) 00:31, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Sorry about that. The link I was referencing was here: https://www.aved.gov.bc.ca/psips/public/report/document.jsp Third page in states who is authorized to operate University Canada West. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.46.109.215 (talk) 17:44, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

It still doesn't work. Perhaps you're accessing it behind a firewall or with a password? Can you give a detailed description of what it is you're trying to link so others can find it in another manner? --Ronz (talk) 20:39, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Again, my apologies. It was working earlier this morning when I tested it. On this page (http://www.aved.gov.bc.ca/psips/public/report/recommendationsDecisions.faces), under University Canada West, it is the link that reads "Application to use the word "University"". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.46.109.215 (talk) 22:34, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks.

LearningWise Inc. is part of Eminata Group. From some quick research, it comes across that the sale of the university was made initially, and later LearningWise (or at least the name) was later bought Eminata bought LearningWise with the purchase of the university. I'm not sure how we should clear this up in the article though, but the Eminata information is correct. --Ronz (talk) 03:53, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi. I believe the last sentence in the intro paragraph "The Eminata group also owns CDI College. Eminata is chaired by Peter Chung, a man convicted in 1993 in California for defrauding students at a computer school he ran.[6] [7]" should be removed because 1) it is irrelevant to the information about UCW and 2) it was explained by Mr. Chung himself that "In 1991, a computer school in California which I voluntarily closed became insolvent and was assessed default damages of $12 million. Though I never acknowledged wrongdoing personally or regarding any staff, all of my business and personal assets (including my home) were applied to the judgment." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Modifier miller (talk • contribs) 20:10, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

The sources suggest otherwise. I think it's time to look at what sources are available on this. --Ronz (talk) 20:20, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

From above, we have:

• http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/NewDelhi/Bogus-varsities-prey-on-Indian-students/Article1-944634.aspx
• http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03/15/b-c-minister-resigns-from-cabinet-over-leaked-email/

--Ronz (talk) 20:23, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Others mentioning Chung in the context of UCW:

• http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/story.html?id=9965cfa1-3967-40e1-a487-0487007d2599&k=51502

That's all I can find with quick searches. --Ronz (talk) 20:31, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

I've rewritten the info about the purchase by Eminata, including the years of founding and purchase. Does that resolve the concerns about the mention of Eminata and LearningWise? --Ronz (talk) 05:02, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

References

Dr. Skip Triplett

Without an independent source, I'm not sure why this deserves mention, much less in the lede. --Ronz (talk) 21:31, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

I think mentioning his name is good, but not sure about the 'extensive experience' stuff. Dbrodbeck (talk) 21:34, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

That was my inclination as well. If only there were a more appropriate place to put it. What about just putting it in the infobox? --Ronz (talk) 21:40, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

I think the infobox is a good place for it. I think in fact we do that with other Universities. Dbrodbeck (talk) 21:49, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

"Extensive experience" should go, given that the source is a press release. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 22:09, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Clarification questions

In what reference does Wikipedia retrieve the quote "University Canada West is a for-profit university?"

According to the Wikipedia page "List of universities in Canada"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_universities_in_Canada#British_Columbia

Wikipedia classifies University Canada West correctly as a Private University.

To quote wikipedia "List of universities in Canada" British Columbia

See also: Higher education in British Columbia and List of colleges in British Columbia The University of British Columbia has the largest number of students enrolled in western Canada There are eleven public universities and four private universities in British Columbia. Seven of these universities – Capilano University, Emily Carr University of Art and Design, Fairleigh Dickinson University, Kwantlen Polytechnic University, Trinity Western University, Simon Fraser University, and the University of British Columbia – are in the Metro Vancouver region, the most populated region of British Columbia, and four of them – Vancouver Island University, Royal Roads University, the University of Victoria, and the University Canada West – are on Vancouver Island. The University of Northern British Columbia houses a main campus in Prince George, with regional campuses in Quesnel, Terrace and Fort St. John. Two public universities, Capilano University and Kwantlen Polytechnic University, and one private university, Quest University, are primarily undergraduate institutions....

Also, after reviewing the British Columbia of Canada Post-Secondary System on BC Council on Admissions & Transfer (BCCAT) http://bccat.ca/system/psec/ they also refer to University Canada West by its official university category of Private.

To quote the Post-Secondary System on BC Council on Admissions & Transfer (BCCAT) http://bccat.ca/system/psec/ :

Private Institutions in the BC Transfer System BC has a well-developed transfer system which involves all public post-secondary institutions and some private ones (see bctransferguide.ca). This system allows students to move from one institution to another and to get credit for previous coursework. All the public institutions listed above are part of the BC Transfer System as well as Yukon College. Private institutions that have been through a provincial degree quality assessment process can also be part of the BC Transfer System. These institutions are: Acsenda School of Management Alexander College Art Institute of Vancouver Columbia College Coquitlam College Corpus Christi College Fairleigh Dickinson University Fraser International College Quest University Trinity Western University University Canada West

Please, update University Canada West Wikipedia page to address University Canada West by its official university category.Goburst (talk) 16:11, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

How can Wikipedia cite from these references when the links are dead or don't retrieve the article referenced? How can we source or validate quotes without a proper reference list? The following links are dead on the Wikipedia site University Canada West:

2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_Canada_West#cite_ref-2

3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_Canada_West#cite_ref-3

4. ^ "University Division". Eminata.com. Retrieved 2011-03-29.

9. ^ "University Canada West Undergraduate Admission Requirements". Ucan.ca. Retrieved 2012-03-24.

13. ^ "UCW Academic Programs on its website". Universitycanadawest.ca. Retrieved 2011-03-29.

14. ^ UCW Page on the BC Transfer Guide[dead link]

27. By JSteffenhagen (2008-11-23). "Private B.C. university sold – Report Card". Communities.canada.com. Retrieved 2011-03-29.

Where is the content referenced in this link? How is it relevant?

30. "Global News | Latest & Current News – Weather, Sports & Health News". Globaltvbc.com. Retrieved 2013-09-08.

"For-profit university": CBC news. As for your question re dead links: see WP:DEADLINK ("Do not delete cited information solely because the URL to the source does not work any longer") and WP:SOURCEACCESS. The fact that a convenient internet link might no longer be available does not mean that the publication never happened. You might get further here if you create an account, sign your posts, and in other respects learn more about how Wikipedia works. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 07:48, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

I appreciate the links thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 23.16.212.151 (talk) 08:18, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Concerns about outdated information

1) The Eminata Group is no longer a company and does not own University Canada West please review www.eminata.com

2) University Canada West is a member of the BC Transfer System; British Columbia council on admissions & transfer (BCCAT)Private Institutions in the BC Transfer System. BC has a well-developed transfer system which involves all public post-secondary institutions and some private ones (see bctransferguide.ca). This system allows students to move from one institution to another and to get credit for previous coursework. All the public institutions listed above are part of the BC Transfer System as well as Yukon College. Private institutions that have been through a provincial degree quality assessment process can also be part of the BC Transfer System. These institutions are: •Acsenda School of Management •Alexander College •Art Institute of Vancouver •Columbia College •Coquitlam College •Corpus Christi College •Fairleigh Dickinson University •Fraser International College •Quest University •Trinity Western University •University Canada WestItalic text

Please, have a look at the bctransferguide.ca or http://www.bctransferguide.ca/search/by-sender/ to review University Canada West as a "Sending Institution" or as a "Receiving Institution" at http://www.bctransferguide.ca/search/by-receiver/.

3) In response to whether or not this is a "real" university. The British Columbia Education Quality Assurance (EQA) designation has since 2009 provided "one standard provincial seal that can be recognized globally as a symbol of quality education and consumer protection." The Education Quality Assurance (EQA) designation identifies BC public and private post-secondary institutions that have met or exceeded provincial government-recognized quality assurance standards and other consumer protection. University Canada West has received permission from EQA to use their seal on all of its materials. For reference please review http://www.bceqa.ca/designated-schools/interactive-map.

4) University Canada West also is authorized to use the Imagine Education au/in Canada brand on all documentation. The Imagine Education au/in Canada is a joint initiative of the provinces and territories through the Council of Ministers of Education, Canada (CMEC) and Canada's federal Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade Canada (DFAIT), the Imagine Education au/in Canada brand establishes Canada and its provinces and territories as a preferred world class destination for international students looking to pursue their education abroad.

The Imagine Education au/in Canada brand signals that its holder consistently provides high quality education programs, deals with international students in accordance with recognized codes of practice, and is subject to quality assurance mechanisms that monitor adherence to set standards. For more information please review http://www.cicic.ca/687/postsec.canada?id_postsec=496

5) University Canada West has been approved to enter Candidacy for Accreditation with the Accreditation Council for Business Schools and Programs (ACBSP). University Canada West will be awarded a Certificate of Candidacy for Accreditation at an Accreditation Banquet held June 23, 2013 during the 2013 ACBSP Annual Conference in Salt Lake City, Utah. Please, review http://www.acbsp.org

6)University Canada West does accept GMAT and GRE scores. For more information on University Canada West GMAT go to www.mba.com/the-gmat and use GMAT Code: 5HW. For more information on University Canada West GRE go to www.ets.org/gre/. and use GRE Code: 7570.

7) University Canada West is fully recognized and operates under the authority of the British Columbia Ministry of Advanced Education, Innovation and technology, on recommendation of the Degree Quality Assessment Board. The University's programs are offered under written consent of the Minister of Advanced Education, Government of British Columbia, Canada having undergone a quality assessment process been found to meet the criteria established by the minister.

The term "university" is used under the written consent of the Minister of Advanced Education, Government of British Columbia, Canada, effective August 9, 2004, having undergone a quality assessment process and been found to meet the criteria established by the minister.

Please, feel free to contact the British Columbia Ministry of Advanced Education, Innovation and technology to verify the above mentioned at toll free 1-800-663-7867. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.13.170.66 (talk • contribs)

What changes are you suggesting? --Ronz (talk) 20:19, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Proposed changes

My suggestions are bolded below:

Please, remove comments regarding the following as they no longer pertain to University Canada West

1) The Eminata Group is no longer a company and does not own University Canada West please review www.eminata.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.13.170.66 (talk) 21:23, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

No sources have been offered that demonstrate any change in ownership, nor am I able to find any. --Ronz (talk) 22:28, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Please, add the BC Transfer System; British Columbia council on admissions & transfer (BCCAT) to the affiliations section and edit the "Programs" section stating; University Canada West is listed in the British Columbia Credit Transfer system,[14] but it is only listed as a "recipient," and not as a "sender," of transferable university credits. When the Victoria campus went out of business in 2011, students reported that UCW credits would be not be transferred or transferred on a case by case basis. The correct information follows:

2) University Canada West is a member of the BC Transfer System; British Columbia council on admissions & transfer (BCCAT)Private Institutions in the BC Transfer System. BC has a well-developed transfer system which involves all public post-secondary institutions and some private ones (see bctransferguide.ca). This system allows students to move from one institution to another and to get credit for previous coursework. All the public institutions listed above are part of the BC Transfer System as well as Yukon College. Private institutions that have been through a provincial degree quality assessment process can also be part of the BC Transfer System. These institutions are: •Acsenda School of Management •Alexander College •Art Institute of Vancouver •Columbia College •Coquitlam College •Corpus Christi College •Fairleigh Dickinson University •Fraser International College •Quest University •Trinity Western University •University Canada West

Please, have a look at the bctransferguide.ca or http://www.bctransferguide.ca/search/by-sender/ to review University Canada West as a "Sending Institution" or as a "Receiving Institution" at http://www.bctransferguide.ca/search/by-receiver/. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.13.170.66 (talk) 21:23, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

I've removed the bit about being only a receiver. --Ronz (talk) 22:30, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

RESPONSE: Please, explain your reasoning behind a removal of information vs. updating the document to reflect applicable and useful knowledge?

To quote wikipedia: "but it is only listed as a "recipient," and not as a "sender," of transferable university credits. When the Victoria campus went out of business in 2011, students reported that UCW credits would be not be transferred or transferred on a case by case basis..."

If Wikipedia felt it necessary to inform readers University Canada West is just a receiving university. Why would it not now be necessary to inform readers University Canada West is both a sending and receiving university? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 23.16.212.151 (talk) 06:27, 1 April 2014 (UTC) Goburst (talk) 16:14, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Is there no discussion or response to the above comment?Goburst (talk) 03:13, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

It would only make sense to do so if we included that at one time it did not, but without secondary sources it seems undue. Having their standards up to acceptable levels isn't noteworthy. Getting them to that level might be. Not having them at that level definitely is, as the sources show. --Ronz (talk) 04:00, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

It is not noteworthy to inform the reader about a Universities standards? Why do the following Wikipedia Universities get to inform the reader of their affiliations but, University Canada West is not allowed to post: Please, view Kwantlen Polytechnic University Affiliations: Kwantlen Polytechnic University, view University of British Columbia Affiliations: University of British Columbia, view Royal Roads University Affiliations: Royal Roads University.

The above BC Post secondary Universities can inform the reader of their distinct affiliations the university is a member or part of but, it is not noteworthy for University Canada West? Goburst (talk) 04:43, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Please, add the British Columbia Education Quality Assurance (EQA)to the affiliations section and update the Authorization section to clearly define the EQA and its role as a symbol of quality education and consumer protection

3) In response to whether or not this is a "real" university. The British Columbia Education Quality Assurance (EQA) designation has since 2009 provided "one standard provincial seal that can be recognized globally as a symbol of quality education and consumer protection." The Education Quality Assurance (EQA) designation identifies BC public and private post-secondary institutions that have met or exceeded provincial government-recognized quality assurance standards and other consumer protection. University Canada West has received permission from EQA to use their seal on all of its materials. For reference please review http://www.bceqa.ca/designated-schools/interactive-map. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.13.170.66 (talk) 21:23, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

I don't understand the request, nor what sources verify them. --Ronz (talk) 22:32, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Please, add the Imagine Education au/in Canada to the affiliations section and update the Authorization section to reflect the following:

4) University Canada West also is authorized to use the Imagine Education au/in Canada brand on all documentation. The Imagine Education au/in Canada is a joint initiative of the provinces and territories through the Council of Ministers of Education, Canada (CMEC) and Canada's federal Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade Canada (DFAIT), the Imagine Education au/in Canada brand establishes Canada and its provinces and territories as a preferred world class destination for international students looking to pursue their education abroad.

The Imagine Education au/in Canada brand signals that its holder consistently provides high quality education programs, deals with international students in accordance with recognized codes of practice, and is subject to quality assurance mechanisms that monitor adherence to set standards. For more information please review http://www.cicic.ca/687/postsec.canada?id_postsec=496 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.13.170.66 (talk) 21:23, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

I don't understand how the link provided verifies this. --Ronz (talk) 22:34, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Please, under the Authorization section add the fact University Canada West has been approved to enter Candidacy for Accreditation with the Accreditation Council for Business Schools and Programs (ACBSP)

5) University Canada West has been approved to enter Candidacy for Accreditation with the Accreditation Council for Business Schools and Programs (ACBSP). University Canada West will be awarded a Certificate of Candidacy for Accreditation at an Accreditation Banquet held June 23, 2013 during the 2013 ACBSP Annual Conference in Salt Lake City, Utah. Please, review http://www.acbsp.org

I'm not sure that it deserves mention without an independent and reliable source. --Ronz (talk) 22:36, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Please, correct and add the fact University Canada West does look at GMAT/GRE scores

6)University Canada West does accept GMAT and GRE scores. For more information on University Canada West GMAT go to www.mba.com/the-gmat and use GMAT Code: 5HW. For more information on University Canada West GRE go to www.ets.org/gre/. and use GRE Code: 7570. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.13.170.66 (talk) 21:23, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

I don't understand what this is supposed to correct, nor why it deserves mention. --Ronz (talk) 22:39, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Please. write an unbiased Wikipedia page that reflects journalism ethics and standards; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journalism_ethics_and_standards#Codes_of_practice

7) University Canada West is fully recognized and operates under the authority of the British Columbia Ministry of Advanced Education, Innovation and technology, on recommendation of the Degree Quality Assessment Board. The University's programs are offered under written consent of the Minister of Advanced Education, Government of British Columbia, Canada having undergone a quality assessment process been found to meet the criteria established by the minister.

The term "university" is used under the written consent of the Minister of Advanced Education, Government of British Columbia, Canada, effective August 9, 2004, having undergone a quality assessment process and been found to meet the criteria established by the minister.

Please, feel free to contact the British Columbia Ministry of Advanced Education, Innovation and technology to verify the above mentioned at toll free 1-800-663-7867 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.13.170.66 (talk) 21:23, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

We don't contact people, we need sources, and, frankly, yes, it is a university. I don't see the issue on this one. Dbrodbeck (talk) 00:11, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Concerns sent via email

Wikipedia has been notified to intervene on the inaccurate information posted about University Canada West:

If you can't or don't want to fix an error, your best approach depends on what kind of problem it is: if it's clear vandalism and you can't fix it, please email info-en-v@wikimedia.org and include the address or title of the article and a description of the issue. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us_-_Readers

Email Sent 31/03/2014: Hello Wikipedia, First, thank-you for your services! I understand what Wikipedia hopes to accomplish and I support the learning platform. However, the Wikipedia page titled University Canada West is an example of how inaccurate Wikipedia information can be. Please, review the "Talk" section of the University Canada West Wikipedia page; in the table of contents review item number 34 in comparison to the actual University Canada West Wikipedia page. You will immediately understand how fraudulent, and libel this article is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.13.170.66 (talk) 20:34, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

So, you contend this is vandalism you are fixing. It is not. Things don't happen immediately, let the system work. Dbrodbeck (talk) 21:38, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

I have asked Wikipedia:WikiProject Universities to take a look at the section above (Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Universities) -- Moxy (talk) 21:50, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Hey Moxy did you get any response form Wikipedia:WikiProject Universities I'd really appreciate any updates. Goburst (talk) 04:44, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Thank-you

Cited and referenced changes deleted from University Canada west Wikipedia pg.

NOTE: This is the original heading and post; a print screen was taken 1/4/2014, prior to page save.

I am reaching out to the real editors of the University Canada West Wikipedia page for your help. I sourced, cited, and edited the University Canada West Wikipedia page only to have credible information removed and the site returned to its original form. If this is a community please support my learning by informing me why the editing was deleted.

I would also like to know how I can report an editor.

ThanksGoburst (talk) 23:21, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

You made some changes. They were reverted. Your requirement as per WP:BRD is to try and make a case for the addition of those changes right here, and try and gain WP:CONSENSUS for them. There's no need to report anyone - the discussion process is SOP on Wikipedia. It doesn't matter if they were sourced or not. Also, you don't need to take a printscreen - the history of the article (and your changes) are forever on Wikipedia DP 23:32, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, DP I will review and begin on the talk page. I'll sum it up to practice. CheersGoburst (talk) 23:42, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

I'll give a good example - in one of your additions you went on at-length about CDI College. This is an article about UCW, not Eminata nor CDI. As such, there's no way that CDI should be heavily mentioned, if even at all. DP 23:51, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

DP where can I see my reverted changes? I agree CDI College is not relevant to UCW. However, I did want to honor the original edit by keeping it in. What is the consensus on removing CDI College from the UCW page? Goburst (talk) 23:57, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and removed the mention of CDI. It was added here in case someone wants to try to find if there might be context that we're missing that explains its inclusion. --Ronz (talk) 00:27, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

As for the rest of the information that was removed, as I mentioned on my talk, the information was grossly undue and promotional, sourced with a profile from a pr website: http://www.aosaschool.com/management_team/ds.php

Whatever is going on with CDW, it's clear that they're trying to clean up their image. Without third-party press to draw upon, we should take care what, if anything, we change in the article. --Ronz (talk) 00:34, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Please, let's keep this a Consensus trust the process remember our Wikipedia:Etiquetteand not so quick to assume

Ronz can you please be more specific? The entire document you claim was "sourced with a profile from a pr website:

":As for the rest of the information that was removed, as I mentioned on my talk, the information was grossly undue and promotional, sourced with a profile from a pr website: http://www.aosaschool.com/management_team/ds.php

Whatever is going on with CDW, it's clear that they're trying to clean up their image. Without third-party press to draw upon, we should take care what, if anything, we change in the article. --Ronz (talk) 00:34, 2 April 2014 (UTC

Lastly, to clear up my submission of the supposed "PR website source" here is a link to the University of Victoria Past Presidents this should resolve the credibility of Dr. David F Strong's Biography as founder of University Canada West.

Onwards & Upwards

Goburst (talk) 02:33, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

You'll note it says, "Strong went on to become founding president and vice-chancellor of University Canada West, Canada’s first private for-profit university."

If you believe Strong is notable on his own, start an article about him. This article is about UCW. --Ronz (talk) 02:54, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

the credentials and background of university Canada west's founding president and vice chancellor are not related to University Canada West? You don't believe this history should be recorded?

Goburst (talk) 05:45, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Motion to update

University Canada West (UCW) is a private for-profit educational institution. in British Columbia, Canada.

• Canadian Provincial and Federal Government bodies don't recognize University Canada West (UCW) as a "for-profit educational institution:

British Columbia, Ministry of Advanced Education, British Columbia Education Quality Assurance,British Columbia Council on Admissions and Transfer.

• Reviewing University Canada West's Academic calendar University Canada West Academic Calendarit also did not align with the current description.

• Can we provide a reference to prove University Canada West is making a profit? The University Canada West Wikipedia pg. notes:

"In 2009, Vancouver Sun reported that University Canada West has been losing $300,000 per month and was sold by David Strong to Eminata Group, who owns small colleges in Vancouver."

Thoughts Goburst (talk) 01:50, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

It is notable for being one of the first for-profit schools, and the first in BC. Should we make this clearer? --Ronz (talk) 02:52, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

You suggest the reader should not be informed of the governments involvement with University Canada West a BC Provincial Post-Secondary university BC Ministry of Advanced Education and how University Canada West is regulated bclaws.ca

Please, clarifyGoburst (talk) 04:19, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I don't understand what needs clarifying, It is a for profit school, that is a rare thing in BC, and in Canada generally, which makes it notable. Dbrodbeck (talk) 11:39, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

You're right the statement is valid. However, have all significant viewpoints that have been published by reliable sources been incorporated? Goburst (talk) 14:45, 2 April 2014 (UTC)