Talk:Tungia Baker

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:56, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

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• ... that Tungia Baker influenced contemporary Māori theatre, film, television, fine arts and classical music? Source: "Baker was an influence on younger theatre practitioners including writer Riwia Brown and actor and director Nancy Brunning.""The current screen advocacy group for Māori, Ngā Aho Whakaari, have acknowledged Baker along with others for their contributions to Māori film makers.""Baker was part of an exhibition Karanga Karanga at the City Gallery in Wellington (1986) organised by Haeata, a Wellington Māori women’s art collective that Baker was also a member of. The show was in part a response to Te Māori a major international exhibition of Māori art that did not include women's arts forms."City Gallery Wellington". City Gallery. Retrieved 2021-08-30.</ref>"Whitehead tells of a time when they were making Ipu when Baker gave musician Nunns a Māori rattle instrument she had made as a replica of one from a museum, 'another sound came back into the modern world'.""
  • ALT1:... that Tungia Baker influenced contemporary Māori theatre and film? Source: "Baker was an influence on younger theatre practitioners including writer Riwia Brown and actor and director Nancy Brunning.""The current screen advocacy group for Māori, Ngā Aho Whakaari, have acknowledged Baker along with others for their contributions to Māori film makers.

5x expanded by Pakoire (talk). Self-nominated at 23:24, 5 September 2021 (UTC).

• Article is recently expanded and long enough. There's a current [citation needed] tag that should be addressed. The hook needs a some work. While the fact is kind of implied in bits here and there, it isn't really stated in the article. Also, it paints the subject as a widely influential figure, though I don't see that the references really report her influence outside of theatre. She may have been active in those various fields, but having influence on the work of individual artists isn't quite the same as influencing the entire fields, and my reading of the hook leans more towards the latter. I'd accept if the hook was trimmed down to theatre, based on the Theatreview source, or maybe another hook could be proposed. QPQ exempt, as this counts as Pakoire's fourth DYK nom.
  On an unrelated note which doesn't affect DYK eligibility, readers unfamiliar with Maori terms might find the article a bit hard to read. Consider italicising the terms per MOS:FOREIGN and providing glosses or explanations when they are used (though I realise they are not treated as such in New Zealand, so it's not wrong not to either). --Paul_012 (talk) 19:07, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

• Thanks for your feedback. I am working on the article and Alt hooks, I have more to do - do you think the ALT I just provided that includes film might be ok? Also fyi - I have another DYI in progress so this will be 4th or 5th depending on progress. Pakoire (talk) 04:59, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Alt1 seems fine to me. (Incidentally, the ref website screenz.co.nz appears to have just gone down, but the citation is properly formatted so it's not a problem in the short term.) --Paul_012 (talk) 15:37, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Pakoire, are you still working on this? The article only needs an additional citation for the last paragraph of the Career section, then it will be ready to go with Alt1. --Paul_012 (talk) 09:40, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

• Thanks for the prompt. I can't find references I can use so I have removed these bits from the article and yes I am happy to go with ALT 1 - thank you. Pakoire (talk) 22:09, 25 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Okay, approved ALT1. --Paul_012 (talk) 18:42, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

• Comment suggestion for more alts? I think there's more room for hookiness. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 22:09, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

ALT2: ... that Tungia Baker, despite not learning to speak Māori as a child, influenced contemporary Māori theatre and film? [https://www.proquest.com/docview/338225676 extra source (agf, i can't access it but it's inline cited in the article as such)

ALT2a: ... that after Tungia Baker learned the Māori language at 40 years old, she became an influence on contemporary Māori theatre and film?

ALT3: ... that Tungia Baker owned a cloak given to her by King Korokī Mahuta?

• pinging @Paul 012 and Pakoire theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 22:09, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

• Oooh thanks for your suggestions on being 'hookier'. ALT2 and 2a are not quite the thing. (She was an influence before learning Māori language, and hardly anyone in her generation did because of colonisation so her peers in Māori theatre and film also were (are) often without their language so not a good thing to emphasize. In fact Māori arts was part of a renaissance that fought for recognition of language as a right). The cloak was however a really big thing, but could it also include theatre and film? Or maybe it is too long? What might get more international readers? Pakoire (talk) 03:30, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

ALT3a: ... that Tungia Baker had a cloak given to her by King Korokī Mahuta and went on to influence contemporary Māori theatre and film?

• I think we'd probably have to do one story at a time? Also, if it's before she learned the language, my I suggest:

ALT2b: ... that Tungia Baker was an influence on Māori theatre and film before she learned to speak the Māori language at age 40?

ALT3a is the most interesting overall, but there's a difference between interesting and hookiness, imo. ALT3a would probably be the most hooky to an international audience, too, so kudos if that's what you're going for, but I think that keeping it simpler probably keeps the foreign peeps interested. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 06:32, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

Hitheleekycauldron, thanks for this discussion - it is useful for me. I would like to go with ALT3a as I feel it has the balance of honoring her community, being hooky and being interesting. Next step? Shall I ping the initial reviewer? Pakoire (talk) 20:56, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

• Happy to help! getting Paul 012 back here to approve the hook is probably your next step, yeah. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 20:59, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

• (E/C: Funnily I was just typing this right now.) I've struck ALT2 per the above concern, and also its variants as the article doesn't explicitly actually discuss the order of the events. Both ALT3 and ALT3a are also approved AGF on the paywalled source. I was going to say my personal preference is towards ALT3, as it's more succinct and hooks with limited context usually work just fine for DYK purposes, but if Pakoire prefers ALT3a that is also good. --Paul_012 (talk) 21:06, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

T:DYK/P2

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