Talk:The Personals: Improvisations on Romance in the Golden Years
Latest comment: 7 years ago by MSGJ in topic Requested move 14 March 2017
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Requested move 14 March 2017
edit- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: The American film was moved, the Taiwanese film was not moved — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:45, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
- The Personals (1998 American film) → The Personals: Improvisations on Romance in the Golden Years
- The Personals (1998 Taiwanese film) → The Personals (1998 film)
– "The Personals: Improvisations on Romance in the Golden Years" is the name listed on the Oscars website (the article's only reference), plus WP:NATURAL applies. A more fundamental problem is that there's no verifiable source (as required by WP:NCFILMS) demonstrating the film was released in 1998 anywhere in the world (even though 1999 Oscars is supposed to be for 1998 films). IMDB says the film premiered in 1999, and this claim can be verified here. For this reason, I think we should agree with IMDB that this documentary is in fact a 1999 film, and the Taiwanese film can be moved to The Personals (1998 film) with a hatnote for the documentary. Timmyshin (talk) 19:41, 14 March 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. — JFG talk 06:12, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
- Comment What about moving the American film to The Personals (1999 film) instead? Lugnuts Precious bodily fluids 08:13, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
- I suppose it's an option but shouldn't WP:NATURAL apply? Timmyshin (talk) 21:47, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
- Oppose, see jpg, also if moving the American film to The Personals (1999 film) instead then year is still open which means the Taiwanese film should not have "Taiwanese" removed. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:09, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
- It seems like a lot of work to remove the most helpful bit of an article's title. The only really distinctive thing between these two article titles are the words "Taiwanese" "American", and those are the words we're trying to remove? Why? In ictu oculi (talk) 09:26, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
- What exactly are we supposed to see in the jpg? WP:NFILMS says "If a film shares its title with one or more other film topics on Wikipedia... (... if none of them are the primary topic), add the year of its first verifiable release (including film festival screenings)". The first verifiable release of the American film was in 1999, unless you are able to show otherwise, and "see jpg" doesn't cut it. Nationality isn't necessary per WP:CONCISE and WP:NFILMS if the films were released in different years. Timmyshin (talk) 15:13, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
- Well in the movie poster/video cover jpg we can see the title. Which is also how it used in books. And the Academy Award winning film is more often subject of The Personals in books than 徵婚啓事 which didn't win an Academy Award. Since the American film is also 1998, therefore the Taiwanese film has to disambiguated against an Academy Award winning film. Which is why the stable title has been. .... seriously, what's the point of this move? It is a Taiwanese film. There's no shame in that. In ictu oculi (talk) 17:28, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
- The American film was not released in 1998, but rather in 1999, that's the point of the move. What does shame have to do with anything? Timmyshin (talk) 19:26, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
- "And the Academy Award winning film is more often subject of The Personals in books than 徵婚啓事 which didn't win an Academy Award"... Really, how come more than 95% of the web results are about the Taiwanese film? [1] Timmyshin (talk) 03:05, 25 March 2017 (UTC)
- The Columbia Companion to American History on Film for 1998. Because the web isn't books. In ictu oculi (talk) 18:27, 26 March 2017 (UTC)
- So 1 book makes it the "more often subject" how? A casual GBook search shows a lot more books on the Taiwanese film: Intimacy on the Internet: Media Representations of Online Connections, Historical Dictionary of Taiwan Cinema, Adapted for the Screen: The Cultural Politics of Modern Chinese Fiction and Film, The Columbia Companion to Modern Chinese Literature, Taiwan Film Directors: A Treasure Island, A Companion to Chinese Cinema, Once Upon a Time in China: A Guide to Hong Kong, Taiwanese, and Mainland Chinese Cinema. Again how did you come up with "more often subject"? Timmyshin (talk) 01:13, 2 April 2017 (UTC)
- Well in the movie poster/video cover jpg we can see the title. Which is also how it used in books. And the Academy Award winning film is more often subject of The Personals in books than 徵婚啓事 which didn't win an Academy Award. Since the American film is also 1998, therefore the Taiwanese film has to disambiguated against an Academy Award winning film. Which is why the stable title has been. .... seriously, what's the point of this move? It is a Taiwanese film. There's no shame in that. In ictu oculi (talk) 17:28, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
- What exactly are we supposed to see in the jpg? WP:NFILMS says "If a film shares its title with one or more other film topics on Wikipedia... (... if none of them are the primary topic), add the year of its first verifiable release (including film festival screenings)". The first verifiable release of the American film was in 1999, unless you are able to show otherwise, and "see jpg" doesn't cut it. Nationality isn't necessary per WP:CONCISE and WP:NFILMS if the films were released in different years. Timmyshin (talk) 15:13, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
- It seems like a lot of work to remove the most helpful bit of an article's title. The only really distinctive thing between these two article titles are the words "Taiwanese" "American", and those are the words we're trying to remove? Why? In ictu oculi (talk) 09:26, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
- Support The Personals (1998 American film) → The Personals: Improvisations on Romance in the Golden Years, but Oppose The Personals (1998 Taiwanese film) → The Personals (1998 film). The Oscar-winning short is copyrighted 1998 and an April 1999 Variety review mentions that it had been previously screened at film festivals, thus qualifying for the Oscars awarded in 1999. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 02:12, 25 March 2017 (UTC)
- Can you provide evidence the film was screened in a 1998 film festival? WP:NFILMS requires "year of first verifiable release". Timmyshin (talk) 03:00, 25 March 2017 (UTC)
- Support move of the American film per WP:NATURALDIS; the subtitle is in use in many sources.[2] However, the Taiwanese film shouldn't move, as the American "The Personals" is still a 1998 film (it was honored at the 71st Academy Awards, which was for films released in 1998).--Cúchullain t/c 16:26, 31 March 2017 (UTC)
- User:Cuchullain The Academy Awards have different criteria for feature films (released between January 1 and December 31, see [3]) and short documentaries (released between September 1 and August 31, see [4]). The claim that the 71st Academy Awards is for 1998 films is only true for feature films (a.k.a. General Entry). The bottom line is there is no evidence the documentary film was released in 1998. Timmyshin (talk) 01:13, 2 April 2017 (UTC)
- All that shows is that the short could have come out in late 2007, but no other source suggests that's the case. There are many, that say 1998.[5][6][7][8] The point is, to be considered for an Oscar in 1999, it could not have been released in 1999, even though some sources give that date (because it had releases that year, including its TV premier). Either way, calling the Taiwanese film The Personals (1998 film) would result in ambiguity for readers looking for the short, so the longer title is preferable.--Cúchullain t/c 18:31, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
- The short film was apparently shown at the St. Louis International Film Festival in October 1998.[9]--Cúchullain t/c 18:31, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
- All that shows is that the short could have come out in late 2007, but no other source suggests that's the case. There are many, that say 1998.[5][6][7][8] The point is, to be considered for an Oscar in 1999, it could not have been released in 1999, even though some sources give that date (because it had releases that year, including its TV premier). Either way, calling the Taiwanese film The Personals (1998 film) would result in ambiguity for readers looking for the short, so the longer title is preferable.--Cúchullain t/c 18:31, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.