Talk:Tempered glass

Untitled

This new Toughened glass article based on the Architectural glass page with additional new content. It is an expanded version of the existing text and does contain new information.

The Architectural Glass is about glass in buildings. The Toughened Glass page clearly will have some overlapping content.

With time, this text will expand to include much more information that is not really relevant under the Architectural glass page. Parasite 04:29, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

History Needed

A section on the history of tempered glass would be useful, explaining limitations to glass' application prior, the technology's discovery, and its subsequent impact; what new uses the technology enabled. Jay Zylstra 20220211T0859 GMT-8 — Preceding undated comment added 17:00, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

ARC

The ARC int. info wasn't a reference, it was an explanation of why a low-name recognition company should be included with other very well known brands. It's still there, though I'm not happy with the mention, but it's kinda jarring in my mind. I dislike the content, both old and new, because it invites editors listing every single company that makes some sort of baking dish out of toughened glass. I tried to reduce it to the ones that many people would recognize (an assumption on my part) and ARC just 'cause it was mentioned and appears to make several types of toughened glass. WLU (talk) 14:46, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

• I removed the reference to borosilicate, since it has nothing to do with tempered glass.Jerry guru (talk) 03:01, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Contradictory Statement in Advantages?

"It is important to note that while the strength of the glass does not change the deflection, being stronger means that it can deflect more before breaking. Annealed glass deflects less than tempered glass under the same load, all else being equal."

Is it just me, or does this statement contradict itself? 212.240.170.196 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 10:29, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Possibly. The first sentence is OK in itself. But the second sentence does seen to run counter to the first. I suspect the two sentences were added by different editors. Garbagemania (talk) 00:51, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

The first statement is correct --- tempering or toughening glass does not change it's Young's Modulus or Poisson's Ratio. The compressive stresses existing in the surface after tempering reduce the probability of fracture at any given load because they offset the surface tensile stresses resulting deformation under load. Tempering changes none of the properties that determine displacements, strains, or stresses due to deformation.

The second statement directly contradicts the first. JBP20090825 (talk) 17:49, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Disadvantages

"...the edge of the glass where the tensile stress is the greatest... " False! Stress is the lowest nearby edges, please check out... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.134.161.53 (talk) 16:06, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Some more disadvantage: Tempered glass tends to break spontanously. (Rate of spontanous failure of tempered glass is about 1-5%. This rate is about 0,5-0,1% by heat soak tested tempered glass.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.134.161.53 (talk) 16:21, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

"This waviness is a significant problem in manufacturing of thin film solar cells.[9] " While I think this statement is most likely true, reference 9 (doi:10.1117/12.792934) is about topography of wafers and not glass.

Advantages Clarification ?

"It is important to note that while the strength of the glass does not change the deflection, being stronger means that it can deflect more before breaking. Annealed glass deflects less than tempered glass under the same load, all else being equal."

I think what this means could be expressed this way:

"It is important to note that both tempered and annealed glass will deflect the same amount for the same load. As the load is increased, annealed glass will break sooner, while tempered glass will sustain greater load and therefore greater deflection before breaking."

I think this deals with the seeming contradiction, however, I'm not in a position to know the truth of my suggested rephrasing, and will appreciate expert confirmation or correction.

RCopple (talk) 04:06, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Early reports (posted Sept 6, 2008)

The "discovery" of TG is attributed to a Frenchman de la Bastie in 1874 (British Patent 2783). His toughened glass and its peculiar mechanism of fracture was described in 1875 ( example see p635 in Journal of the Royal Society of Arts (Great Britain) Item notes: v. 23 (Nov. 20, 1874 - Nov. 12, 1875)... there are numerous other 1875 publications reporting the same news). By 1877 a second method (that of Siemens) of manufacture was reported (The Year-book of Facts in Science and Art - Item Notes 1876/77 by John Timbs, published by Simpkin, Marshall, and Co., 1877). I amended the claim to first patent on the article page. If you agree with the de la Bastie history (well dcumented at the time), please update the article... or I can do it... just let me know.Softwarestorage (talk) 18:39, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

unbreakable

I have just experienced a break in where I live and their was toughened glass in the patio doors. I was always under the inpression that toughened glass was unbreakable.obvoiusly not. can any type of glass be manufactured so the glass cannot be broken. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.146.122.102 (talk) 08:08, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

@86.146.122.102 as said tempered glass is 4 times stronger than regular glass. All glass is breakable and considered fragile. 2601:188:C780:B980:CC2A:EC05:19F6:161A (talk) 04:57, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

Not Unbreakable, but A Different Approach to Toughening

To the question posed in "Unbreakable", in a building in which I used to work, there had been a couple of break ins of the sort described. Subsequently, the ground-floor plate glass windows were rendered effectively unbreakable by the in-place application of a clear film of some sort of plastic sheet, bonded with a clear liquid adhesive. The result was effectively the same type of toughening as in auto windscreens, albeit without the second layer of glass - an impact (stone, brick, etc) may shatter the glass, but the fragments are held in place by the tough resilient plastic layer.

The front windshield of cars etc is usually made of two sheets of glass with a gummy transparent adhesive between. Whether windscreen glass is also toughened by the heat or chemical methods outlined in the article, I don't know.

--RCopple (talk) 21:22, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Any glass can be broken with enough force; I've seen cars with windshields smashed out completely, an I've seen many more tempered windows broken out in cars, stores, and schools. The article doesn't say that tempered glass can't be broken out; it says that it breaks into cubes if it is, so I don't know why this is being discussed on this talk page. PCHS-NJROTC ^(Messages) 20:20, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Identifying Glass: Tempered or Not?

Hey, is there any available information on determining if a piece of glass is tempered? i.e. is there any way to look at it and know if it's tempered or not? —Preceding unsigned comment added by TommyWillB (talk • contribs) 23:27, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes, if we're talking about window glass. If it's tempered, it will likely have a small manufacturer's stamp in the corner of the payne that says what kind of glass it is (tempered float, safety tempered, solid tempered, laminated safety, etc), although this is not always true. By the way, this probably would have been better asked at the reference desk; talk pages are for the discussion of article improvement. PCHS-NJROTC ^(Messages) 20:12, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Porcelain Breaks Tempered Glass

Is there any explaination of why porcelain breaks tempered glass so easily? Videos on youtube show people tossing small fragments of porcelain onto car windows and the window bursts. People also claim that porcelain powder can break the glass. I assume there is some vibration physics to explain this interaction. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.9.12.243 (talk) 21:08, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

I believe it is because most ceramics are so much harder than glass. The harder ceramic scratches the surface of the glass, the compressive and tensile forces within the glass are unbalanced, and the structure of the material collapses. Garbagemania (talk) 00:45, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Another seeming contradiction

Under PROPERTIES it says "the toughened glass surface is not as hard as annealed glass and is slightly more susceptible to scratching" but then under USES it says "Toughened glass is used in some cell phones such as the Apple iPhone and LG Secret due to its scratch-resistant properties."

Well, which is it? Garbagemania (talk) 19:58, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

It's a glass vs plastic issue rather than an annealed vs toughened issue. The iPhone etc use toughened glass because it is scratch-resistant compared to the plastic that would be used otherwise. Most devices which incorporate glass use toughened glass to avoid litigation and bad press in cases where annealed glass might cause injury. Dan Pope (talk) 02:11, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

This page used in CSI NY S06E01

Hi guys - Just to let you know that it looks like this page was used in CSI NY!

There is a glass sample being analysed and the machine lists the properties - it seems the first para is from the intro and the second from the properties section

keep up the good work trying to clean the page so Wiki can be THE encyclopedia of the 21st century...Chaosdruid (talk) 22:31, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Is there any reference to edge treatments such as k or c grinding anywhere in the glass topic on wikipedia? DLekx (talk) 15:44, 4 February 2011 (UTC)DLekx

I removed the Pro Wrestling Section

I am not sure who thought adding an entire section about Pro Wrestling's use of tempered glass was appropriate. I've removed it as it is completely tangental. By the same logic, I could add sections about use by the military, stunt men, the NBA and dozens of other industries that use this very pervasive product.

12.160.31.50 (talk) 14:49, 2 March 2011 (UTC) 12.160.31.50 (talk) 14:49, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

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Intro cleanup

I cut this sentence out of the introduction:

In the United States, federal safety laws require that window glass be tempered if each of the following criteria are met: sill height within 18 in (0.457 m) of the floor, top edge greater than 36 in (0.914 m) from the floor, area greater than 9 ft² (0.836 m²), and horizontal distance to nearest walking surface of less than 36 in (0.914 m).

There are couple problems with that where it was. It cluttered the intro and went into way too much detail on a particular tangent, interrupting the flow of reading. Its inclusion in the intro such detail also places undue weight on this particular regulation in the US - also too much US focus. That said, it is referenced and somewhat interesting, so it might fit somewhere else in the article - maybe in a new section on regulations requiring tempered glass in various applications... -Helvetica (talk) 03:09, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

References

Requested move 16 July 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Tempered glass (lower case "g"). The MOS:RETAIN argument has weight, but is countered by the first sentence of the guideline: When an English variety's consistent usage has been established in an article, maintain it in the absence of consensus to the contrary. With few exceptions (e.g., when a topic has strong national ties or a term/spelling carries less ambiguity), there is no valid reason for such a change. Given this article is written in American English ("vandalized" etc), the name should follow suit. Additionally, all other participants are either in support or neutral on the new title. Anarchyte (work | talk) 10:03, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

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Toughened glass → Tempered Glass – "Tempered Glass" and not "Toughened Glass" is the primary and unambigous name for this material, so the article should be named accordingly. As one example of relative popularity, there are currently 55.3 million references on Google to "tempered glass" and only 3.51 million references to "toughened glass" (over 15x more common in usage). There is currently a redirect from Tempered Glass to this article which prevents me from making the change myself, which is why I have requested an administrative change. "Toughened glass" should redirect to "tempered glass", rather than vice-versa. Turjan (talk) 00:34, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

• Support. The references predominantly use "tempered". --SmokeyJoe (talk) 02:57, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

lowercase g, of course. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 11:50, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

• Support Tempered glass per WP:COMMONNAME. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 03:57, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose with capped Glass. This is not a proper name. As for tempered vs toughened, I'm not sure. Tempering is one way to get toughening, but not the only. Dicklyon (talk) 06:20, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
• Only support Tempered glass, per Dicklyon. There is no excuse for capitalizing "glass". Red Slash 11:24, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
• Sure, make it "Tempered glass", or "tempered glass", whatever is the correct capitalization for Wikipedia titles. My concern wasn't with capitalization rules, but with word choice, so if this change is made we can use whatever is best -- "Tempered glass", I suppose.Turjan (talk) 16:40, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
• Support Tempered glass per WP:COMMONNAME. Rreagan007 (talk) 18:26, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
• I think this is an WP:ENGVAR/MOS:RETAIN issue. ("Toughened" in UK, South Africa, India; "tempered" in the US?) —  AjaxSmack  01:28, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
  • I don’t, because the sources all use “tempered”. I was surprised. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 02:15, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
    • Most (not all[1]) of the sources use "tempered" because the sources are from the US. I'm still not sure if this should invalidate MOS:RETAIN. Therefore,...
• ...oppose until WP:ENGVAR/MOS:RETAIN issues have been addressed. —  AjaxSmack  17:39, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
• Support. Per AjaxSmack I agree sorting sources by geographic area shows a clear US preference not shared elsewhere. On a global basis the American preference is the most common name. The article is already written in American English and should thus be named according to the US preference. This view is consistent with the interpretation of policy decided at Talk:Gasoline where it was given that "If an article has evolved using predominantly one [national variety of English], the whole article should conform to that variety, unless there are reasons for changing it based on strong national ties to the topic. In the early stages of writing an article, the variety chosen by the first major contributor to the article should be used." — Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 11:49, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Gorilla Glass

Gorilla Glass is chemically strengthened glass. Maybe its additionally tempered, but it doesnt seem to be the case. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.47.29.213 (talk) 09:59, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

Merge Spontaneous glass breakage to Tempered glass April 2023

The Spontaneous glass breakage page duplicates information, and is within the scope of, Tempered glass. Contently2958 (talk) 14:31, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

  Y Merger complete. Klbrain (talk) 07:49, 30 June 2023 (UTC)