Talk:Tar Heel

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Tar Heel is the nickname of north carolina plus Tar Heel was a insult it ment that you were poor

Moved Text

I have moved the following text from the article page to the discussion page so that someone can read it and put it in the article in wikipedia form. Here is the text:

Interesting.... here is a little more to the story: THE WAR originated a great many new phrases in the imaginative South, but was Tarheels one of them? Long prior to the war the state of North Carolina was famous for its chief export: tar, pitch and turpentine. These articles were in great demand during the days of wooden sailing ships and were known and still are known as "naval stores". Where does these natural products come from you ask? Pine trees. Pine trees everywhere! Ask any native North Carolinian and they will tell you that when they would walk through the woods as youngins, and in most cases barefooted, they would come home with tar stuck to the bottom of their soles. This, historians suspect, is how the phrase "tar heel" originated. In 1862 "tar-heel" was introduced as a term of ridicule. Why? Well, the State of North Carolina was the last state to succeed from the Union. Apparently, the State officials held out to the last moment. Therefore, throughout the South, the state was known as "the reluctant state". The joke circulating around at the beginning of the war went something like this: " Got any tar?"- "No, Jeff Davis has bought it all."- "What for?"- "To put on you fellow's heels to make you stick."- As the war continued, many North Carolinian troops developed smart replies to this term of ridicule. Such as when the 4th Texas Infantry lost its flag at Sharpsburg. Passing by the 6th North Carolina a few days afterwards, the Texans called out, "Tarheels!", and the reply was, "Ifin you had had some tar on your heels, you would have brought your flag back from Sharpsburg".

It was recognized as a term of affront until 1864 when, during one of his visit to the Army of Northern Virginia, North Carolina State Governor Vance said in one of his speeches to the troops: "I do not know what to call you fellows. I cannot say fellow soldiers, because I am not a soldier, nor fellow citizens, because we do not live in this state; so I have concluded to call you fellows Tarheels". There was a slight pause before the applause came and from that time on "Tarheel" has been honored as an epithet worthy to be offered to a gallant North Carolina soldier."

As the war continued, it was plain that more North Carolinian "boys" were dying for "the Cause" than from any other state, Virginia included. Equally important, many North Carolinian State Regiments distinguished themselves on the battlefield, the First North Carolina Cavalry Regiment included. Yet, until recently, many history books gave most of the credits of victory and heroism to Virginia Regiments (after all, it was on Virginia soil that most major engagements were fought). Historians are just now recognizing the error of their ways. -A good example is the newly published book entitled "Stuart's Tarheels: James B. Gordon and His North Carolina Cavalry" by Chris J. Hartley. This biography of Brigadier General James B. Gordon takes a tremendous step in acknowledging the often overlooked accomplishments of the North Carolina Cavalrymen during the Civil War. History has revealed that North Carolinians were far from "reluctant". Which is why you will at times here them say with pride:

"First at Bethel, Farthest at Gettysburg and Chickamauga, Last at Appomatox."

Claim of Controversy

There was a section on the page: "A great deal of controversy has come from another origin of the word. Tar Heels was also a nickname for slaves, namely those who just arrived in the Americas. It was generally believed that those with darker skin tones were more desirable workers, therefore sellers would apply tar to the lighter parts of their body; their heels were one of those areas." which I have absolutely never heard of and could not find reference for anywhere...except Wikipedia. I removed it from the main article but left it here should there be some verifiable source for it. DukeEGR93 17:31, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

I am not sure if this is the place to put this, however, I have always heard from old farmers in the Carolinas that the term is actually a reference to a tobacco farmer. You could always tell a tobacco farmer from any other farmer because they would have tar on their heels. It's the reason the term started in the parts of North Carolina that had a lot of tobacco farms. This is just hearsay, however. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.231.165.102 (talk) 01:05, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Failed GA

This article failed the GA noms for the following reasons:

• Per WP:MSH, headings generally should not repeat the title of the article.
• Please reorder/rename the last few sections to follow guidelines at Wikipedia:Guide to layout.
• Convert the lists in the article to prose.
• If possible add a few more references.

Hope this helps. Tarret 23:12, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Removed text

Someone added the following text below. I removed it because it did not have any sources. If the person that added this information wants to know more about why this text was removed they can discuss this here or on my talk page. Remember (talk) 23:22, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

"Spoken NC History - Stories from Older North Carolina Natives from my youth, "Tarheel" came from the redcoats (British Soldiers). During the revolutionary war, the NC Militia would strategicly key bridges with tar. Then as the British marched across, their feet would stick, and mass formations would mass on one central point. This allowed the NC Natives to rise from the bushes and shoot the british down, for they could not move because there feet were stuck to the bridge. This is how history would perceive that the NC Militia were more than just ordinary farmers. General Robert E. Lee understood this during the Civil War, and even though NC was last to succeed, the sons of NC faught with "heels of tar," meaning they never retreated. The revolutionary story is folklore, but does have some historic proof.

[edit]"

Sources to add

google books - [1] [2] [3] [4]

More removed text

I removed the following text from the page because there was no citation for it. If someone can provide a cite, I will add it back (or they can add it back). Remember (talk) 12:53, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Bravery Under Fire - By June 1st, 1779, British forces, under the command of Lieutenant General Sir Henry Clinton, had seized Stony Point, a strategically important spot on the west bank of the Hudson River, below West Point, effectively closing King’s Ferry, a major crossing point. Stony Point was garrisoned with elements of the 17th Regiment of Foot, under the command of Lt. Col. Henry Johnson, and was reinforced by a grenadier company belonging to one of the two battalions of the 71st Regiment, a company-strength detachment of the Loyal American Regiment, and a detachment of the Royal Artillery, who manned fifteen field pieces, including five iron and two brass cannon, four mortars and four small howitzers. A Royal Navy gunboat was assigned to protect the river approaches to the fortifications, and the armed sloop Vulture was also anchored in that part of the river. From his headquarters at West Point, General George Washington formulated a plan of attack and selected Brigadier General Anthony Wayne, of Pennsylvania, to lead it. The plan called for two columns of light infantry to scale the steep cliffs, to the north and south of Stony Point, in the dead of night, and conduct a surprise attack against the fortified British position. To protect the element of surprise for the two flanking columns, two companies of North Carolina light infantry, commanded by Maj. Hardy Murfree, were detached from the northern column for a diversionary attack at the center of the British forces, with instructions to “lay down a gauling fire.” The battle, conducted on 15-16 July, 1779, was over in 25 minutes, a major victory for the Continental forces. Wayne sent a dispatch telling Washington, “The fort and garrison, with Col. Johnson, are ours. The men behaved like men determined to be free.” General Washington arrived the next day, to inspect the battlefield and congratulate the troops. In describing the battle to Washington, General Wayne attributed much of the success to the boys from North Carolina, whose “heels were stuck like tar” as they commanded the full attention of the British troops and took their withering fire.

How about if "Tar Heel" was actually "Tar Hill" in the beginning?

Just speculation on my part, but the reason the history of the "Tar Heel" phrase cannot be traced fully might be that this phrase was initially "Tar Hill", referring to the North Carolina hills where pine forest are, and where tar was produced. Later, it would be changed verbally to its current form "Tar Heel".

Interesting theory, but unless you can provide a reliable source for that hypothesis, it can't go in the article. Rreagan007 (talk) 19:13, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Origins

I'm from NC, and in our history classes we were taught that the term Tar Heel comes from the Civil War explanation listed on the page. It had nothing to do with any hills, pitch, or slaves. It was actually documented that the term came from that, as North Carolinians were pretty proud of the term. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Solo013 (talk • contribs) 00:00, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

I had heard many years ago that the university Tar Heels referred to the athletes running on a tarred track.Flight Risk (talk) 02:45, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

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Rosin Heel

Does anyone have a source for the Rosin Heel information in the lede? If not, I will remove. Remember (talk) 11:50, 21 September 2021 (UTC)