Talk:Swimming (Mac Miller album)

"Final album"

As far as I'm aware it is standard practice to note the last album to involve the artist's executive involvement as their "final" studio album. Any album afterwards are usually noted as "posthumous". See Back to Black, Blackstar (album), and Invincible (Michael Jackson album) for examples of this practice. – PhilipTerryGraham (talk · articles · reviews) 05:28, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

Is it not standard practice as far as I'm aware, nothing is noted about this at MOS:ALBUM. Marking later releases as posthumous doesn't change anything...posthumous releases still count as his albums, so what makes this the final album? This is the final album before his death, but not his final album. Hayman30 (talk) 06:53, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

PhilipTerryGraham, "usually" is an WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS argument and you should establish consensus before adding it to the article (or altering a note that was already there), instead of "standardising" it. Ss112 08:22, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

@Hayman30 and Ss112: Surely there was a consensus for this practice if so many articles do it? I'm sick of being told I'm making an WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS argument when it is almost certain that there was an agreement made somewhere, sometime, by some people that resulted in so many articles using this practice. Otherwise why is it so widespread? – PhilipTerryGraham (talk · articles · reviews) 08:58, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

@PhilipTerryGraham: No, you're making assumptions. You changed the article to your will based on an inaccurate presupposition. Saying that something is "widespread" isn't a warrant for you to do whatever you want. If there's consensus somewhere, show it. Hayman30 (talk) 19:53, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

@Spengouli: I know the guy is dead but it doesn't excuse you by adding unsourced content. TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 23:24, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

This album was released on August 3, 2018. Currently, there have been no other albums released after it. Miller died on September 7, 2018. This was the last album released in his lifetime. That's not something that needs to be cited, especially in the lead. "Final album" is another discussion on its own, but this is pretty cut and dry. Spengouli (talk) 04:26, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

@Spengouli: So what, unsourced content is still unsourced content. This is how Wikipedia works. TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 23:33, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

I guess you don't realize how counting works, but hey, we've all got our flaws :) Spengouli (talk) 04:36, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

@Spengouli: I have restore it. TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 03:11, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

@user:TheAmazingPeanuts please can you re-add again as it's not showing it up on there? BardiCardi (talk) 10:23, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

@BardiCardi: I don't understand what are you talking about. TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 06:54, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

RfC: Concerns regarding the lead section

There is a clear consensus that Swimming should not be called "the fifth and final studio album by American rapper Mac Miller". Editors noted that "final album" is unsourced and that albums can be released posthumously. Some editors suggested adding "last album during his lifetime" or "final album before Miller's death". This can be boldly added and discussed further on the talk page if there are objections.

Cunard (talk) 00:52, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Since Mac Miller has died, editors keep adding unsourced content in the article. For example, Swimming is the fifth and final studio album by American rapper Mac Miller. I don't think "final album" needs to be there if there's a source. TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 00:27, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Votes

• No - It's unsourced content that needs to be cited. TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 00:27, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
• Comment – I'm confused as to what "yes" and "no" mean here. "Last album during his lifetime" doesn't need to be sourced, but "final album" needs a source. Hayman30 (talk) 06:48, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
• Comment - What Hayman30^ said. Dan56 (talk) 07:06, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
• No – The number of the album may not require citation but if it says "final" then that should be sourced. Posthumous albums exist so that can also jeopardize using "final" in that context. On a logical note, we all know this is his final (or last album) but this word can have different interpretations. De88 (talk) 17:02, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
• A posthumous release isn't out of the question, so let's not say "final" album without attributing this pronouncement to its source. Binksternet (talk) 02:15, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
• No – Studio albums can be released posthumously. As an example, I believe that may happen soon with the recently deceased XXXTentacion. There has also been posthumous studio album releases with 2Pac and Queen. Until we find sources that take this possibility out of the question, my vote will stay at no. --Bobtinin (talk) 20:18, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
• No "Final album" is not appropriate, as it's not unheard of for posthumous material to be released. Now, if someone wanted to phrase it as "final album before Miller's death", that would be acceptable. Strikerforce^Talk 19:38, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

• No - Summoned by bot. An album can and more than likely will be released after his death. Support adding "Last album during his lifetime". Meatsgains^(talk) 15:34, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Discussion

I'm not entirely sure what needs to be sourced. WP:COUNT can show it is the fifth album. The fact that it is the "final" release, should be easy to source, but it should be sourced in the article, not in the lead. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:32, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

"Final album" needs to be sourced because it's not obvious information. You cannot deny the possibility of future posthumous releases. It doesn't matter if it's sourced in the lead or in the body, at this point we just need a source. As I said in the previous thread, "last album during his lifetime" is WP:BLUE that doesn't need to be sourced. Hayman30 (talk) 06:44, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

@Walter Görlitz: @Hayman30: Sorry the RfC is confusing to both of you, I have change it a little bit. TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 02:02, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Music and Lyrics

Is there any source to back up the first claim in the "Music and Lyrics" section? "Throughout the album, Miller's break up with pop singer Ariana Grande is a common theme of inspiration, as well as themes of self-love, healing and psychological growth, similar to themes explored in his previous album, The Divine Feminine (2016)". Without a source, this seems to be an opinion or personal interpretation of the album.SandersJR (talk) 20:23, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

@SandersJR: I see your point. The first sentence is not supported by a source, if content is not supported by an reliable source it should have been removed. TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 21:50, 27 February 2019 (UTC)