Talk:Stephen J. Blackwood

Ralston College

A section about Ralston College was added to this article on 20 April. I reverted the addition and would expect per WP:BRD and WP:ONUS that the usual procedure would be to discuss here before re-inserting in order to gain consensus. Since that has been disputed repeatedly by WikiWatchdog, whatever, I will start the discussion.

1. The college is already mentioned in the first line of the career section. This is an article about the person, not about the college (a previous article about it was deleted as not notable), so this is sufficient.
2. The additional content is not independently sourced.
3. Even the primary sources make clear that the college has not started yet, thus this could be considered WP:CRYSTAL or WP:TOOSOON, and regardless, it has not yet been demonstrated to be notable.

It should be removed. Melcous (talk) 14:16, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

The college section should definitely be kept, and possibly expanded. The previous discussion of the relevance of the college determined that it should be redirected and housed within the president's page--its current position--but left open the possibility that it might actually be deserving of its own page. This was years ago and the college has become active enough recently to foster discussions with some of the most prominent public intellectuals in the world. The recent exponential traffic to this page--those no doubt looking for more information about Ralston College as much as Stephen Blackwood--are a testament to this. Indeed, I think our goal should be discussing how we can expand this college section and to find as much detail as exists on it to help these people. Given the aforementioned discussion and the significance of a college, it should no doubt have its own section and more than a single line in the career section. The sourcing for the section has been improved to external sourcing as of now, and this could be improved further. In terms of the broader question of the tangibility of the college, users of the previous discussion such as E.M.Gregory have noted that we "have entire categories filled with significant proposed institutions and things." To say nothing of the articles discussing the college, the substantial board of visitors, and the presence of the college in public discussion in the past few months. I thus agree with the past conclusion that Ralston should remain a section within Stephen Blackwood and that we should do our best to elaborate on it until we feel confident and informed enough to make it its own distinct page.

It should be kept. WikiWatchdog (talk) 05:51, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

• A section about the proposed college certainly can be kept, because we do keep proposals that can be sourced, and this one is well sourced. The caveat is that it must always be referred to as a proposed college, and or similar language to make clear that this is a projected institution, not one that currently exists.E.M.Gregory (talk) 10:05, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

Trying to work towards a compromise: I have no problem with there being a statement within the biography about Blackwood regarding his involvement with the proposed college. I would still question the need for a separate section, and would be strongly opposed to the re-insertion, for example, of the list of names of "Board of Visitors" which was primary-sourced with no clear indication of what that title even means, particularly for an institution that doesn't yet exist, and so just looks like name-dropping/puffery. Cheers, Melcous (talk) 22:32, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

Could you say more about your position on the board of visitors? I guess I didn't think that such a term was ambiguous. Instead of "name-dropping/puffery" aren't these figures an external barometer of the college, as we've been trying to include? As for me, I remember hearing about some of these figures talking about the college and becoming interested in it from that angle initially. WikiWatchdog (talk) 13:14, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

I think the main point is what I said above: it is only sourced to the proposed college's own website, and there is no explanation there of what the term means or what this large group of people actually do. I haven't looked into it in great detail, but a quick google doesn't show up any further information regarding Ralston. The term itself doesn't seem to be all that common, but that might depend on region/history, and while it could mean something akin to trustee (but again, what does that mean in practice for a college that is simply "proposed"?), or it could mean something much more ceremonial or honorific. Melcous (talk) 13:31, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

There is a fairly long piece about the college on www.lotuseaters.com. That site is mentioned in a couple of Wikipedia articles, but I don't know if it is citable. The piece has objective content mixed with viewpoint material. Kdammers (talk) 05:19, 14 April 2021 (UTC)