Talk:Silly Mountain (Arizona)

Educational Project Page

This page is part of an Educational Project by students of LIUC, Italy, with a course page at: https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/LIUC_-_Universit%C3%A0_Cattaneo/Digital_Technology_(Autumn_2022) The users of the group are new to the Wikipedia platform and are learning to edit following Wikipedia rules. They are open to any advice on improvements of the page in conformity to Wikipedia requirements and guidelines, and any help useful for the enhancement of the page will be gladly accepted. The student User names are:

• Team5DTRiccardo
• Team5DTElija
• Team5DTVanessa
• Team5DTGiacomo
• Team5DTMaddalena
• LIUC06ca.alfieri

Limelightangel (talk) 18:35, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

@Limelightangel The draft has been submitted, waiting for the acceptance. Meanwhile, improvements and further images will be added. Team5DTVanessa (talk) 19:25, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

Potential sections/sub-sections division

Looking at some articles about mountains in Arizona a possible paragraph division may include these topics:

• After the brief introduction, the mountain history and something about the origin of its name.
• Geology
• Flora and Fauna
• Hiking trails.

it would be nice adding also a paragraph named "location" to show more in detail the precise location where the mountain stands.

--Team5DTMaddalena (talk) 20:36, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

We could add also a paragraph named "Gallery" (at the bottom maybe?) there we can put more images of the topic.

--Team5DTMaddalena (talk) 15:53, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

There is already a page on Superstition Mountains, where there are many useful information and sources.

LIUC06ca.alfieri (talk) 18:41, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

Here are other possible topics to look at:

1. Statistics of the mountain (elevation, prominence, and comparison with other mountains in the area, for example, can be found here)

2. Describing the location, nearby cities, how to access it (can be described using Google Maps website)

Team5DTElija (talk) 23:19, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

Look also at some of the many existing similar pages to see the sections and sub-sections used on these. You can also copy these across and edit them to fit this topic. Limelightangel (talk) 12:39, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Maybe we can create a sort of table in which we can put the different hiking routes schematically in order not to bore the readers with too much infos and make the reading clearer and "faster".

--Team5DTMaddalena (talk) 15:29, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

Great idea! Now the gallery should be improved in order to add more content to the page, in my opinion. Asking websites for permission for their photos could help. Team5DTVanessa (talk) 09:32, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

Got the authorization from a copyright owner, just uploaded the images on Wikicommons. LIUC06ca.alfieri (talk) 10:21, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

An immage has been uploaded in the section "Flora". It could be modified. Team5DTGiacomo (talk) 19:27, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Changed the "Hiking Trails" heading in "Recreational Activicties" in order to add more general content on Silly Mountain Park, it would be useful to add more information on services and activicties at Silly Mountain LIUC06ca.alfieri (talk) 11:47, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

A new section about fauna of the area has been created. this section could be improved with some useful information. Team5DTGiacomo (talk) 19:55, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

The section on fauna has been enriched whith a subsection on birdwatching, that still needs some improvements. LIUC06ca.alfieri (talk) 16:51, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Further Suggestions

It can be interesting adding information about the hiking trails offered at Silly Mountain Park. There are some useful information here silly mountain hiking trails

Team5DTMaddalena (talk) 21:44, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

I have added a section heading for this. There are 10 defined and named trails. Try to find good sources for these and avoid subjectivity in the content. Limelightangel (talk) 12:02, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

include a section on Silly Mountain Park i.e. what it is, when it was established, boundaries, management, etc. See, for example: https://worldofarizona.com/silly-mountain-park/ Limelightangel (talk) 12:08, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

A paragraph about the creation of Silly Mountain Park has been created, it could be improve with useful information. https://worldofarizona.com/silly-mountain-park/ Team5DTGiacomo (talk) 14:48, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

I added an image in the paragraph of Silly Mountain Park. The photo shows the "silly mountain park" entry sign.

--Team5DTMaddalena (talk) 20:24, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Do not use this Talk page to simply say what edits have been done. The Page History records this. The talk page is for discussion on the page Limelightangel (talk) 19:25, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Doubts about the last paragraph created. It may not be relevant if it is not further developed. Request for suggestions.Team5DTVanessa (talk) 09:44, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

The sections "Silly Mountain Park" and "Silly Mountain conservation works" should be merged because they mainly cover the same information. Team5DTElija (talk) 09:58, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

@Team5DTElija thanks for the advice. Now the paragraph position is fixed. Team5DTVanessa (talk) 11:07, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

For consistency of the page, perhaps, it is worth using the same type of primary measurements (meters, kilometers vs feet, miles). For example, in the infobox, meters are used, but in the table of hiking trails, feet/miles are used to describe length. Team5DTElija (talk) 11:32, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

See Manual_of_Style#Units_of_measurement for guidelines. Limelightangel (talk) 10:37, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

information about some trials in the table is missing, it could be implemented. Team5DTGiacomo (talk) 15:14, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

New relevant images on Silly Mountain need to be added in the Gallery section.LIUC06ca.alfieri (talk) 15:31, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

Waiting for the copyright permission from some user with which I've communicated to. Images will be posted as soon as possible in order to improve the draft. Team5DTVanessa (talk) 14:21, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Other links are needed to expand the box "Links to related articles" just added in the bottom of the page.Team5DTVanessa (talk) 14:25, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

A table showing the recent ascents of Silly Mountain (from 2001 to 2022) has just been created. please check the format. --Team5DTMaddalena (talk) 09:08, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Format a little modified but great idea @Team5DTMaddalena! Reference added. Everything should be correct now! Team5DTVanessa (talk) 09:46, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Some data in the table about trails is missing, it could be implemented and corrected. Team5DTGiacomo (talk) 07:58, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

done Team5DTMaddalena (talk) 15:42, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

a live-interactive map showing the location of Silly Mountain has been added in the section "location". please check and try to enhance it possibly. --Team5DTMaddalena (talk) 15:41, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

Map controlled. Everything seems correct. Great idea @Team5DTMaddalena! Team5DTVanessa (talk) 17:41, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

the section "gallery" is too poor. it should be improved with more images. --Team5DTMaddalena (talk) 15:45, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

Some pictures have been found a few days ago. The owners have been contacted and have given the permission. Images also have been uploaded to Wikipedia Commons. As soon as the permission is sent by the authors, the images will be uploaded. Team5DTVanessa (talk) 17:46, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

Some internal links could be implemented in the paragraph "Fauna". Team5DTGiacomo (talk) 09:12, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

The paragraph "Fauna" has been implemented today. Team5DTRiccardo (talk) 09:14, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

Some mistakes about grammas and capital words have been corrected Team5DTRiccardo (talk) 14:20, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

new specific reference about the paragraph "fauna" has been written Team5DTRiccardo (talk) 14:21, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

new images have been added, mainly in the section "gallery". Please have a look and check the format. Team5DTMaddalena (talk) 17:25, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

maybe it is better to remove the table of the trails completely as the external user suggested in order to make this page published Team5DTMaddalena (talk) 14:03, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

Style for Talk page

Note the guidelines/help on using Talk pages, and look at some existing Talk pages. You need to create section headers for these to structure the themes. You do not use things like 'Guys"! Try to avoid personal tense e.g. 'I'. Correct the spelling error. You can edit the above section to fix these. Limelightangel (talk) 20:12, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

References

Reference 2 needs to correctly use the Cite>Journal template, including the authors names and the publisher. You all need to add section headings in the Talk page, structure your discussions for clarity and edit the missing ones Limelightangel (talk) 11:22, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

@Limelightangel Thanks for the advice. Reference 2 has been adjusted with the missing information, in accordance with Wikipedia parameters. Team5DTVanessa (talk) 19:59, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

Reference 4 (Tom Kollenborn Chronicle) may not be accepted by Wikipedia, because it is a blog. Suggested by others required. Thanks.Team5DTVanessa (talk) 08:24, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

Some guidance on this at Wikipedia:Verifiability#Self-published_sources Limelightangel (talk) 10:39, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

Reference 9 ("Not really a mountain; more an interesting hill.") should be corrected. Team5DTElija (talk) 01:59, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

References for the Fauna section are missing and should be added Team5DTElija (talk) 23:00, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

References about the paragraph "wildlife" have been added. Team5DTRiccardo (talk) 09:12, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

Infobox

There is a relevant Infobox template for pages on mountains: Template:Infobox_mountain. It is used on many pages, like: Uluru. You can see how it has been used on this page by inspecting the markup (Edit). It is not necessary to complete all the fields in this template. There are predefined rules for the content you can add to each field in the template. See the Infobox help at: Help:Infobox Limelightangel (talk) 11:32, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Thanks @Limelightangel! Infobox has been added, but there are just a few pieces of information. It could be interesting to improve that part with other content and images -one of the mountain, for example, and one of a map-. Team5DTVanessa (talk) 14:14, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

@Team5DTVanessa thanks for the suggestion. more information and a map have been added in the infobox. Team5DTMaddalena (talk) 15:32, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

Draft review, 21/11/22

• refs. 1 & 4 are still incorrect
• there is no Infobox
• there are no acceptable images
• there is no clear structure (sections and sub-sections) - see similar pages
• Arizona is in the USA. Improve the article intro. summary.

Limelightangel (talk) 10:36, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Thanks @Limelightangel! These suggestions have been followed! Team5DTVanessa (talk) 15:17, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

Draft review, 26/11/22

• the references are mainly low quality websites and better quality sources should be developed. Refs. 3, 4 and 5 are indicative.

• you will need to add External Links, a See Also section and Categories to your page - see similar pages, and use Help:Category, etc. Understand the different uses and content for these elements.

• fix and avoid over-linking e.g. to countries.

• place images in the relevant sections. The image of a cactus is in the Geology section.

• image captions: you can define these to make them clear and relevant to your page by editing the alt= markup for them. e.g. "Welcome to Silly Mountain Park" sign" is better as 'Silly Mountain Park Entrance Sign, Silly Mountain, Arizona'.

• there is a section on flora, but not on fauna.

• maps: needs a map of the area and trails.

• content: there is a lack of factual content, particularly related to location, the Park, Geology, flora, fauna, mountain biking, and the Trails. The area must also have some history, and an origin for the name. See

https://kjzz.org/content/1733096/qaz-how-did-apache-junctions-silly-mountain-get-its-name and

http://superstitionmountaintomkollenborn.blogspot.com/2012/08/).

I suggest you try to research and source more content to establish notability and depth on the topic. This may involve contacting the Park for notable sources and information on the area. Google Books contains useful information from acceptable sources e.g.

https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Public_Lands_and_Forests_Bills/ATVparPkJFQC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22silly+mountain%22&pg=PA50&printsec=frontcover;

the Arizona Trail passes Silly Mountain: https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Biking_the_Arizona_Trail/9bQOM5Dhq2kC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22silly+mountain%22&pg=PA131&; printsec=frontcover;

it is included in a local resource management plan: https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Phoenix_Resource_Area_Resource_s_Managem/igMzAQAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22silly+mountain%22&pg=PA92&printsec=frontcover;

it is featured very briefly in at least two works of fiction/novels: https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/First_Comes_Love/Q6S_QUVQxMUC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22silly+mountain%22&pg=PA142&printsec=frontcover; and https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Secrets/O6NsYgT0VdUC?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22silly+mountain%22&dq=%22silly+mountain%22&printsec=frontcover;

it is mentioned in an irreverent book about Arizonans: https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Arizona_101/pQJzBnKEerwC?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22silly+mountain%22&dq=%22silly+mountain%22&printsec=frontcover;

etc.

• grammar/style: a path of 45 meters is not a 'hiking trail'. 'Throughout time' is vague, use dates.

• images: needs images of the specific location.

Many thanks @Limelightangel! Your tips have been very important to improve the article. Most of them have been followed and images will be added soon.Team5DTVanessa (talk) 14:32, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Got the authorization to use some images, which can now be found on wikicommons.The Volunteer Response Team should approve the copyright authorization soon. LIUC06ca.alfieri (talk) 10:32, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Message for Student editors

Please advise your students to follow some of the basic rules outlined in the Manual of Style, especially those on bolding, duplicate links, and overlinked terms. They have also removed valid tags from statements without providing a source. I've been reverting quite a few of their edits over the past few hours and see that there's still hundreds that need to be checked for compliance. SounderBruce 10:41, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

   Many thanks. I will reinforce this with them, be having meetings with them to review their recent work and the many issues. They have repeatedly had this advice but clearly need it emphasizing. Thanks for the feedback. Limelightangel (talk) 14:47, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

Draft review, 03/12/22

• the image next to the contents table needs removing, or moving to the location section.

• repeated feedback: correct and avoid inappropriate style e.g 'quite easy to get to'; 'you need to take'; 'it is possible to see'; 'in fact'; 'pretty quickly'; 'heal...wounds'; etc. See Manual of Style and Wikipedia:Writing_better_articles

• image captions: you can define these to make them clear and relevant to your page by editing the alt= markup for them.

• use of bold: Use the help and check the text formatting. See Help:Text_formatting and Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Text_formatting#Automatically_applied_boldface

• repeated feedback - maps: needs a map of the area/mountain and the trails. See, as an example: http://home.moravian.edu/users/phys/mejjg01/retirement%20activities/pages/geo/46-SillyMtn.html , which you could seek permission to use.

• repetition: related to King and the name (in History).

• History: consists only of the origin of the name, which is not History, or could be an initial sub-section, or separate section. Otherwise, there is no 'History' in this section.

• Geology: could contain better information on the formation and age of the mountain.It is at least touched on at http://home.moravian.edu/users/phys/mejjg01/retirement%20activities/pages/geo/46-SillyMtn.html , with an indicative geological map. Others exist.

• The format for the 'in literature' section content should be checked in the Manual of style

• images: needs images of the specific location.

• still light on content e.g.it is unclear how you get to the summit (High Point Trail), how far this is, what the height gain is, or how long it takes. The link above reports and shows the impact of uncontrolled land use, including the shooting of cacti. There is no mention of the Silly Mountain Mine. Is Silly Mountain in 'The Goldfield Quadrangle'? Who owns it? Is there a current land management plan/strategy? There is no sourced consideration of whether it is a hill or a mountain. etc.

Limelightangel (talk) 15:05, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

@Limelightangel thanks a lot for the help. a section called "Gallery" has been created; there more suitable images of Silly Mountain have been inserted Team5DTMaddalena (talk) 15:43, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

thanks a lot for the help, grammar mistakes and inappropriate style have been corrected. Team5DTGiacomo (talk) 07:51, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

thanks a lot for the help @Limelightangel the suggestions about geology will be followed Team5DTGiacomo (talk) 15:22, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Draft review, 12/12/22

• the poorly titled section on Turnout at Silly Mountain needs a rethink. This content may be relevant for a little-climbed Himalayan giant, but even Mount Everest does not list all the ascents. The limited list here clearly does not include all the ascents, nor is an ascent of this small, popular and easy hill particularly notable. Nor does the designation 'climber' relate to this easy walk. I suggest this section is deleted.

• image captions could be better in terms of clarity and grammar e.g. "Old Mine Trail" in Silly Mountain is better as 'Old Mine Trail on Silly Mountain, Arizona'.

• check the format guidelines on names, bold, locations, abbreviations, italics, heights and use of speech marks, and apply these consistently and correctly. See Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style e.g. 'classified as failed because'; etc. Is the correct format Superstition Area Land Trust (SALT), S.A.L.T, the Superstition Area Land Trust, or Superstition Area Land and Trust? Is it 'miles' or 'mi'? Is it 'km' or 'kilometers'? Is it "Old Mine Trail", 'The Old Mine Trail' or 'the Old Mine trail'? etc.

• there are issues with repetition, over-linking and style e.g. 'located on the left', 'testifies that in the 1970s'; 'but the name stuck.'; 'in Silly Mountain' (repeatedly); 'Silly Mountain offers its visitors'; ' flowing paths but also some hike-a-bike trails.'; 'Superstition View trail instead offers a view'; 'is flowing and easy'; 'equals around 5.63 km (3.5 mi)'; 'have the opportunity to appreciate'; 'then the walk was realized'; 'Given its fame'; etc. See, for example, Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Words_to_watch and Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Vocabulary.

• repetition: proximity to the edge of Apache Junction is repeated at least four times.

• grammar e.g. 'and generosity in only a few weeks'; 'able to achieve the goal of fixing and recreating the entire area'; 'because of the lacking evidence of valuable metals discovered'; etc.

• the section on Fauna is general and of unclear relevance to this specific page.

• reference 12 is incorrect and of unclear relevance to the page topic.

• note, learn from and thank the recent contributions from editors in the Page History.

Limelightangel (talk) 12:30, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

the section "Turnout at Silly Mountain" has been deleted as suggested. Team5DTMaddalena (talk) 13:24, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

thanks for the suggestions, mistakes about wipedia style have been corrected. Team5DTGiacomo (talk) 14:19, 12 December 2022 (UTC)