Talk:Shotgun Man

Latest comment: 10 years ago by Marklemagne in topic Carl Sifakis as a Source

Urban Legend edit

  • Apparently "Shotgun man" is a Urban Legend-a check of the Northwestern University website on "Homicide in Chicago" shows shotgun killings in Chicago-but none in Jan-March 1911-and only one killing at Oak and one at Milton Streets between 1900 and 1920 (Reference only). {Another example of organized crime Urban Legend is that in the turn of the century New York City there was a "Murder Stable" where Gangsters killed one another. However see [[1]] and [[2]] which debunk this legend.
Apparently Ken Hit thinks you're wrong, anonymous user you. See below. Besides, what has the possible myth status of a NY Stable to do with the veracity of this article? CapnZapp (talk) 17:37, 31 August 2008 (UTC)Reply

Ken Hite and more possible sources edit

Taken from Ken Hite's blog:

In other news, [info]robin_d_laws has descended so far as to blog my unfamiliarity with the legendary Black Hand killer "Shotgun Man." Having noodled around on the topic since, I can assure Robin that the Wikipedia entry holds every datum available on the topic. Or perhaps more data than are, strictu sensu, available: the source of the tale is Herbert Asbury's Gem of the Prairie, (republished in 2002 as The Gangs of Chicago to take advantage of the nascent Scorsese-induced mania for all things Asburian) which shares with Asbury's other works a charming preference for lurid effect above grim historicity. (That said, Asbury is more reliable than Wikipedia; he gives the span of killings as January 1910 to March 1911, contra Wikipedia's still-sloppier source, Sifakis' Mafia Encyclopedia.) A check, for example, of the Northwestern University 1870-1930 Chicago Homicide Database indicates only three firearm murders that fit the pattern in early 1911, one of which was in a tavern, not on "Death Corner" (now part of the former Cabrini-Green). Should anyone be interested in that or any of Chicago's other death corners, I can heartily recommend Richard Lindberg's Return to the Scene of the Crime: A Guide to Infamous Places in Chicago, which manages to combine lurid effect with more historicity than otherwise.

Regards, CapnZapp (talk) 17:37, 31 August 2008 (UTC)Reply

Wait - this citation seems to affirm that this is an urban legend. He says that the Wikipedia article contains "more data than are, strictu sensu, available..." and he goes on to refer to the original source for the story as having a "preference for lurid effect over grim historicity" and then he goes on to point out the lack of any records of killings matching the Shotgun Man tale. Highnumber (talk) 20:52, 30 April 2012 (UTC)Reply

Ambiguity: the Shotgun Man's allegiance edit

I couldn't understand what the Shotgun Man was actually doing: killing Black Hand members or killing for the Black Hand.

This sentence indicates that he killed members:

"Shotgun Man was an assassin and mass murderer in Chicago, Illinois in the 1910s, to whom murders of Black Hand extortionists were attributed."

While this one implies he was in the Black Hand's power structure and non-members were afraid of him:

"However, he was said to be well-known throughout the Italian community and, with the political influence of the Black Hand, residents may have been hesitant to turn in the assassin."

Please clarify this as there is potential for confusion. (talk) 17:32, 28 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

I'd agree. This makes the article seem contradictory. Mutt Lunker (talk) 10:08, 21 October 2012 (UTC)Reply

Change the initial sentence so that it reads " whom murders BY Black Hand extortionists were attributed." — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 14:00, 26 May 2013 (UTC)Reply

Carl Sifakis as a Source edit

I can't offer any criticism except my own experience, but Carl Sifakis, while an entertaining writer, is not considered a credible source in my line of work.

Personally, while I may not be well-known, I am considered an expert on early organized crime in the United States. This isn't the place to offer my bona fides, but Sifakis is known to play fast and loose with the truth.Marklemagne (talk) 17:00, 19 May 2014 (UTC)Reply