Talk:Shlomo Ephraim Luntschitz

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Name of seferEdit

The following text was added to the introduction in a footnote by Contributor613:

Although most write this as Keli Yakar, "the second word should be Yekar" (יְקָר), as the vowelization appears in Proverbs 20:15 (Rabbi Dr. Marc Shapiro, the Seforim Blog, The Pew Report and the Orthodox Community (and Other Assorted Comments), part 1, endnote 4). This vowelization also appears in the Jewish Encyclopedia entry.

This is very detailed and potentially unhelpful. In the text in Mishlei 20:15 the grammar requires that the first vowel is a shva. By Shapiro's logic, we should be pronouncing the first word with a chaf rather than a kaf. The name of the sefer when standing alone can definitely be "Keli Yakar"; there are other examples of seforim that have names derived from Tenach but not in their exact form and spelling. JFW | T@lk 18:06, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Firstly this is not a violation of no original research since reliable, published sources were referenced. As to your difficulty with Shapiro's published comment please don't take it the wrong way but your statement that by his logic we should pronounce "the first word with a chaf rather than a kaf" is simply mistaken (and what I'll say now would be NOR if included in the article) since the only reason that in the verse it's a khaf rather than a kaf is because, in the verse, the word כלי has the waw (וּ) prefix (making for וכלי). To say that even without this "ו" prefix it should be a chaf is a fundamental misunderstanding of practical Hebrew grammar. As an aside, this mistake is most commonly made by certain American Ashkenazim when they say "Bigsan and Seresh" instead of Teresh as it should be pronounced in the absence of the prefix, since the removal of the dagesh is only because the word in Esther 2:21 "וָתֶרֶשׁ" was preceded with its waw prefix. Contributor613 (talk) 19:13, 14 February 2016 (UTC)