Talk:Shield

Improvement drive

[[[[[Heraldry has been nominated to be improved by Wikipedia:This week's improvement drive. Vote for this article there if you want to contribute. --Fenice 19:56, 16 August 2005 (UTC) sup homee

The Illustrative Photo in this Article

This should be changed, as the photograph does not clearly show a shield, and the state of the statue isn't definitely focused enough to let people know what a shield is, should they somehow be unaware of that protective device.

Strange picture

File:Tarch.jpg

Does anyone know anything about the illustrated shield (if that is what this is). I stumbled upon this image in Wikimedia commons.]]]]]

Image is probably a fiction. Looks someone conflated the Indian "punching sword", (see Katar) with a spiked boss. 'Targe' or 'target' is a French name for a peculiar type of Celtic shield used from ancient times up until the modern era, that was a round shield with a spiked boss.

I've done a little digging around, and it does appear to be a real weapon. Er. Shield. Er. ...thing. It's called a tarch, as the filename, and it's Russian in origin. If that's any help at all. Noctu 21:15, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Changing stuff like crazy today

Continuing my multi-article adding/changing rampage, I'm editting buckler and tower shield. Arctic Warfare 19:55, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Shield Evolution

I don't quite know the format for putting this up, so...

Petra: Small light shield of Greeks and Macedonians. Possibly the same as 'pelta' or peltarion, which is noted as being both crescent shaped and round. I suspect the 'crescent' shaped may refer to it's concavity. In any case, smaller then the Clipeus, and carried by skirmishing infantry (Peltasts). http://uoregon.edu/~klio/maps/gr/peltast2.jpg is the image provided, by may be made up.

Cetra/Targe: Small round Celtic shield, w/ center spike. Laminated wood? Parma: Small round Greco-Roman shield, strongly made, used metal in construction. Scutum: Large rectangular Roman shield; concave. 2.5' wide by 4' tall. -Early scutari are sometimes oval?

Clipeus: Large round Greek shield; held using strap (balteus)and central handle (umbo/boss). Concave. Wicker base, covered with ox-hide and edged with metal. Used by Homeric heroes, it later shrank in size. Later the balteus and central handle were discarded in favor of a series of ties. Gallic: Large oval Celtic shield, w/ boss. Probably laminated wood. Hoplon/Argive: Greek shield built around wood core, using balteus and grips? 15.5 lbs., 30-39" diameter, used in shield wall.

Shields in Phalanx listed as protecting more the person to the left then the person holding the shield; center boss may have been used as a place to 'hook' the elbow, so more then 1/2 of the shield covered the next person in line.

SOURCES
http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_shield.html http://www.era.anthropology.ac.uk/Era_Resources/Era/Pitt_Rivers/shieweap/shgenex3.html#anchor1833799 http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/secondary/SMIGRA/Warfare/home.html#weapons

Subsections

I added three subheaders, "Prehistoric and Antiquity", "Middle Ages" and "Modern Shields", just to break the article up to make editing easier. I moved the first picture a bit down so that it is in the first subsection now. I think the subheaders match the text as it is now, still, maybe someone better acquainted with the matter can take a look at them and rename or shift some text as necessary.

213.47.127.75 10:36, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

WPMILHIST Assessment

A nice treatment of the subject, covering a large breadth across both space and time. I do not think there is any need to be exhaustive here, and thus I think things are more or less fine as they are. It might be nice to add an image of riot police shields or something equivalently modern, perhaps even replacing another picture, so as to hint at the great variety of shields that have existed across time. LordAmeth 17:03, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Shields Obsolete

It is not gunpowder that made shields obsolete but plate armor. Plate armor made cutting weapons largely obsolete, forcing a switch to impact weapons such as maces, piercing weapons such as the estoc (tuck), and piercing weapons like the pick. Getting the force together to penetrate plate required two hands, and with plate armor impenetrable to most weapons (including early guns), the extra weight and encumbrance of a shield was no longer worth it.

Combined with this was a change in tactics to include the use of mass pike-hedges following the Swiss and german Landschnects. "Irregular" troops (who did not fight in line formation)continued to make use of the shield for a time. Archers still carried a buckler for personal protection into the 1650's, and the Scot's were still carrying small shields into the 1700's.

Theblindsage 23:01, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Is it worth mentioning the shields from Super Smash Bros?

I was wondering weather it was worth it to add small bit on shields and there usage in the Super Smash Bros. video game series. It doesn't fit in any of the other shield categories i saw as it is unclear weather it is a energy t. From the rules I know I can add it but i was wondering if you guys thought it would be worth adding. Also the shield is barely mentioned in the main SSBM article. Mrobinson587 04:10, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

No, that would be covered under the sentence mentioning energy shields. --Eyrian 12:51, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

I think it would better serve to mention it briefly in the "Fictional Use" section, and link to the SSBM article. Expound upon the subject there. I further conjecture that it would serve the article to remove the portion regarding the specifics of Star Trek ship operations, and redirect to an appropriate article/stub. -- --Mrmckeifus (talk) 18:40, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Under "fictional", its odd that the article mentions Star Trek force shields but does not mention Captain America's famous indestructable adamatinum/vibranium shield, which is closer to the source material and has been around for the last 75 years or so.

I was disappointed when I didn't see Captain America make an appearance in the "Fictional use" section. I would have figured him for the most popularly-known example of a fictional shield user. CSWarren (talk) 17:26, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Also, while I'm nerding it up, I should point out that Cap's shield is an alloy of Vibranium and "an experimental iron alloy". No Adamantium involved. :) CSWarren (talk) 18:06, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Nov '07 update

I have made a number of substantial improvements to this article:

1) I removed references to the Tower shield. The term is a modern one derived from D&D. Histocial tower-like shields, the scutum and kite are already discussed.

2) I removed several poorly edited sentences that were redundant or unclear as to topic or contradictory.

3) I removed discussion of the buckler as "punching shield". The use of the term is unreferenced and inconsistent with this reference [1] already in use on the page. Also in I.33 over sixty pages of technique show only one punching technique.

4) Incorporated info from Theblindsage on the reasons for the obsolescence of shields.

Mercutio.Wilder (talk) 03:59, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Merging shield articles

The articles in the medieval shields category should be merged with this article or a single master artcile separate from this one. 66.90.184.51 (talk) 01:41, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Removed several images

I have removed the following images as they contributed little to the article and created a good deal of white space, poor lay-out, etc.

1. [[:File:NAMA Mycènes bouclier 1.jpg|thumb|200px|Wall painting depicting a Mycenaean Greek "figure eight" shield with a suspension strap at the middle, 15th century BC, National Archaeological Museum, Athens]]
2. [[:File:British Museum Aztec or Mixtec shield.jpg|thumb|right|200px|Ceremonial shield with mosaic decoration. Aztec or Mixtec, AD 1400-1521. In the British Museum.]]
3. [[:File:Warrior Alkimachos Painter MAN.jpg|left|thumb|150px|A hoplite by painter Alkimachos, on an Attic red-figure vase, c. 460 BC. Shield has a curtain which serves as a protection from arrows. ]]
4. [[:Image:Pilensalve crop.jpg|thumb|left|325px|Reenactment of an early Imperial Roman legionary shield array]]
5. [[:File:38-svaghi, lotta,Taccuino Sanitatis, Casanatense 4182..jpg|thumb|left|212px|Sword and buckler combat, plate from the Tacuinum Sanitatis illustrated in Lombardy, ca. 1390.]]
6. [[:File:Codex Manesse 081 Walther von Klingen (detail 2).jpg|thumb|left|212px|Drawing from the Codex Manesse showing jousting knights on horseback carrying shields]]
7. [[:Image:Nias shield.jpg|right|112px|thumb|Nias ceremonial shield]]

If there are any of these that should be re-inserted, please let me know. brenneman 05:45, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

You are right for the lay-out etc., but I object with the removal. I created a Gallery section for them per WP:MOS. A Macedonian, a Greek. (talk) 08:22, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Better to link on galleries at commons than place them here. Might be time to buff this up with some content...Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:29, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Shield bashing and bucklers

The part of the article about shield bashing totally omits the fact that the buckler was constantly used for bashing, hitting with the flat or the side, etc. It can be seen in some medieval manuscripts, and it is obvious in the design, because the buckler is small enough to allow more use of such techniques. Should I include a note on that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.8.109.4 (talk) 13:14, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Heraldry

There should be some discussion of heraldry in this article. It was an integral part of shield design for most of European history. Zacwill16 (talk) 10:10, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Distinguishing terms for arm affixation

The shield was held by a central grip or by straps which went over or around the user's arm.

Does anyone know if there are terms for categorizing shields on this basis? The closest I could figure is something called an Enarmes which is mentioned on the Guige article. Basically I'm wondering if terms exist somewhere for describing must-be-gripped shields versus the kind where the forearm goes through some loops keeping the hand free for holding a second weapon in the shield-using hand. For example in this image from the Diablo II manual a Barbarian is wielding in his left (forefront) hand a yellow sword while also having a buckler worn on his left forearm. How do we distinguish accessory shields like this versus shields that are meant to be used as the exclusive implement of the limb? Ranze (talk) 19:45, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

Games are not proper sources, for anything other than the games themselves. Unless you can find an actual historical example or source, or a modern example, of such a shield, the issue is moot. AFAIK, no such shields have ever existed--213.113.50.137 (talk) 17:46, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

"Alkwerte" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Alkwerte. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 November 26#Alkwerte until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Certes (talk) 16:55, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

"Parrying shield" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Parrying shield and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 April 19#Parrying shield until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Steel1943 (talk) 06:43, 19 April 2022 (UTC)