Talk:Shaunae Miller-Uibo

Fell v. dove?

Please undo this edit - which the user has deliberately misrepresented as a 'typo' edit. It is his 3rd or 4th attempt at slanting the POV in this article - see the history.

"diving across the line to beat Allyson Felix" gives an utterly false impression that it was a deliberate act by Miller. Although the articles referenced do indeed use the word 'dive', they also make it clear that it was not intentional. Whereas this sentence in the article does the opposite.

The twitterati have been going crazy about how this person 'cheated', because she beat the US golden-girl, fair-and-square. She got no advantage from her stumbling over the line.

This is a bio of a living person, and the person is already subject to massive amounts of abuse on the internet. The Wikipedia bio must stick to the facts - she fell over. She did not "dive...to beat" her opponent at all.

No reliable source claims that she did.

TL;DR: Please undo this edit - I've undone it a couple of times before (and suggested discussion here).

The user is clearly trying to sneak in their POV, and I can't do anything directly about it, now it's been semi-protected. 86.20.193.222 (talk) 00:36, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

Note: You say that no reliable source claims that she dove over the finish line, yet two of the sources cited in the article (from both the Telegraph and the BBC) explicitly say that very thing. Topher385 (talk) 03:24, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

That's true, but, that's just looking at the rather attention-grabbing headline. The articles have the luxury of space to explain what they mean in more detail - to qualify their phrasing. The Telegraph says, "In the dying seconds of the race, Miller's legs seemed to give up, and she threw herself forwards in an instinctive dive for the line".

That's very different from saying that she "dived across the line to beat Allyson Felix" - I hope you see what I mean?

And the BBC link is a very short piece, made at the time as a breaking-news thing. They covered it better later - see [1], "Miller stumbled and then dived across the line as she edged out [...] Felix", quoting "The only thing I was thinking was the gold medal and the next thing I know I was on the ground," Miller, 22, said. "It was just a reaction."

If we only have the one brief mention in this article (which seems appropriate coverage to me), then it must be appropriately neutral.

Having said all of that - I have no intention of getting into a ridiculous Wikipedia debate about this... it's simply not worth it. Life's too short.

You'll either understand the point I'm making, or you won't. I'm done arguing about it. Best of luck, either way. 86.20.193.222 (talk) 03:46, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

still needs editing. It was undone once, then re-done soon after. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.20.193.222 (talk) 09:21, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

It's been widely reported that Miller dove across the line as Felix threatened to overtake her; that was the commentary on NBC as well. Miller herself acknowledges that's what she did here. Until consensus is reached regarding the correct term, the article must stay at status quo, which is that she dove across the line.

That said, the real issue here is not the word dove, but rather phrasing of the rest of the sentence. Perhaps it could be rephrased slightly to remove the connotation that the dive was deliberate, if indeed that is not the case. --Drmargi (talk) 16:44, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

Drmargi, yes, it needs changing, because of the implication that it was a deliberate tactic, despite no reliable sources claiming that it was.

As I explained above, the news articles about it have space to discuss things in detail, and they make it perfectly clear that they are not accusing Miller of doing anything wrong.

Perhaps it could say she "took a dive", although that's rather colloquial - personally, I think 'fell' is much easier for anyone to understand, without getting into unnecessary detail.

I think this is important, because this "living person" has been getting huge amounts of abuse on social media, with claims that she 'cheated' the US golden-girl out of a medal.

It is not fair to say that there is a "status quo" - on 16 Aug (when this happened), it first said that she fell [2]. Since then, other users have repeatedly changed it, including six times by SirBartleMerryworth [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] - including lying in the edit summary, calling it a "typo" - despite others asking him to stop during those edits [9]

I am happy for it to be discussed, but right now, there is no consensus to say she dived to win, and this is a WP:BLP so contentious info needs to be treated with caution.

I'm frustrated that I can't do anything (due to the pending-changes/protection), and that the above user is abusing that privelege. 86.20.193.222 (talk) 18:02, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

• There is no consensus to change the article. Obtain consensus before using an edit request. -- GB fan 18:57, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

It is a gross misrepresentation of facts to claim that she was "diving across the line to beat Allyson Felix". The first reference says, "in the dying seconds of the race, Miller's legs seemed to give up, and she threw herself forwards in an instinctive dive for the line".

She fell over.

No consensus was obtained before adding this highly controversial claim about a living person; one person has repeatedly reinstated it (six times over) without obtaining any consensus. I can't do anything about it, because it's protected now. The other person has not entered into discussions, despite requests 86.20.193.222 (talk) 02:29, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

No consensus is required to insert content supported by multiple reliable sources, as this claim is. --AussieLegend (✉) 07:45, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Miller falling over the line is your opinion, not what the various sources presented say. As I noted above, even NBC's Ato Boldon, himself a runner from Trinidad and Tobago with a highly Caribbean bias, said she dove over the line. How intentional it was, and how sportsmanlike it was is up to the individual reader. Please understand, we have to report what the sources cited state: Miller dove over the line. That doesn't necessarily imply any sort of judgment on the move.

On the other hand, your animosity toward Allyson Felix is apparent in your use, more than once, of the phrase "golden girl" (a phrase, by the way, that an African-American woman would find highly offensive, given it's designed to describe a blonde white woman.) That's clearly clouding your interpretation of the event. Moreover, you have nothing to back up your insinuation that the media are somehow biased in Felix's favor. The last clause in the quote you cite above clearly says Miller dove across the line, thus winning the race. And that's what the article says. It's possible to tweak the phrasing, certainly, but to change dove to fell materially alters the meaning of the sentence, and we can't do that. --Drmargi (talk) 07:47, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

An afterthought, having re-read the discussion. I would be very careful about accusing an editor of "lying" in an edit summary. How we use the term typo varies; inflammatory summaries and accusations accomplish nothing. --Drmargi (talk) 08:09, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

Early and personal life

Should personal life be merged with early life, it looks really weird down there, never seen before. Osplace 17:12, 6 August 2021 (UTC).

Spouse

I was wondering, would it be appropriate to have her spouse’s name added to her infobox, or is that not allowed? ViveLaSuisse (talk) 15:47, 2 October 2023 (UTC)