Talk:Shameless

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved to Shameless (TV series). There is a consensus that the UK TV series is not the primary topic, however there is no consensus that it isn't the primary topic of the "(TV series)" dab. No prejudice against starting a new discussion solely concerning whether or not "UK" should be added to the dab. Jenks24 (talk) 11:20, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

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• Shameless (disambiguation) → Shameless
• Shameless → Shameless (UK TV series)

– There are two TV series with the same name and the same concept: American and British. Also, "shameless" is more ambiguous, and WP:RECENTISM may apply, as both series are still active. George Ho (talk) 03:41, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

• Support per nom. 70.49.127.65 (talk) 03:46, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose but if you're gonna move it then don't put "UK" in the title. See The Inbetweeners and Skins (TV series). Even though U.S. versions of them have been made, the original UK version of Skins has stayed without "UK" in the title and there's no brackets at all in The Inbetweeners (despite inbetweening and inbetweener). Additionally, "skins" is even more ambiguous than "shameless". Unreal7 (talk) 12:41, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
  • In other words, Shameless (TV series), right? --George Ho (talk) 15:52, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
    • Yeah that, but even so, I'm not following how this isn't the primary topic. This is an award-winning and popular comedy-drama which has been going on for almost a decade. There are five other articles called Shameless (one being the U.S. version and the other four being three badly-sourced songs and a feminist magazine), but I can't see any of them being as high-profile as this. I'm sure the stats page will tell you that as well. Unreal7 (talk) 18:16, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
      • Statistics... yeah, about that: UK version is less popular than the US one. I wasn't going to include the stats until you brought them up. --George Ho (talk) 18:20, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
        • OK fine, but I stand by what I said about it being just "TV series" and not "UK TV series". Unreal7 (talk) 22:27, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
        • And also there will be hundreds of broken links where "Shameless" will redirect to the disambiguation page instead because of this, and that will take forever to fix. Unreal7 (talk) 05:05, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
          • Actually, I believe the renaming procedure includes some automatic process for modifying existing links so that they still point to the same destination articles. At least I hope it does. –BarrelProof (talk) 05:12, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
            • It doesn't. Unreal7 (talk) 18:36, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
              • Just a couple of days ago, I was involved in a page move for what is now Cognac, France. When the article was moved, the person who moved it also immediately changed all articles that had links to the previous name. There must have been some automatic process involved, because there were hundreds of such links, and it all happened right away. We still had to clean up a significant number of links after that, but the ones that needed to be fixed manually after the move were only the ones that were wrong to begin with. Can you give an example of a page move that broke correct links? –BarrelProof (talk) 18:58, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
• Support (the original nom suggestion) – There seems to be a substantial number of Shamelesses, and I don't see why the UK TV show should be considered primary (esp. when considering possible recentism influence). I also think having the distinction from the US show in the title is desirable. –BarrelProof (talk) 16:04, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

It should be sonsidered the primary topic because it began 7 years before the U.S. version and everything else called Shameless is hardly as notable. Unreal7 (talk) 10:31, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

• Oppose - The only reason the US TV series has "US" in the title is to prevent it being mixed up with the original British show, which it was introduced later than. As such there is no need to further clarify the title of the original. If a change has to occur then it should be a disambiguation, but changing the title of this article to include "UK" is not justified. Basalisk ^{inspect damage}⁄_berate 00:00, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Will you still then favor for Shameless (TV series)? --George Ho (talk) 00:15, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
• Support, per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, as evidence shows no primacy. I compared this year's monthly stats at stats.grok.se and they've fluctuated noticeably, with only those for May showing more page views for the UK show. And the shows have about 100 times as many views as the others in the namespace, so nothing is clearly primary. ENeville (talk) 20:03, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
• Support, the UK TV series is not the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC as shown by the stats above and since there are two different nationalities of TV series, this artile needs to move to Shameless (UK TV series). And if the dab page is moved then the redirect should be maintained at Shameless (TV series) to Shameless. Aspects (talk) 23:29, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.