Talk:Roy DeMeo

Untitled

This page seems to have an obvious point of view that does not take into account testimonials of close friends and family of Roy Demeo. It would be helpful to read his sons book For the Sins of My Father when editing this article. Cleanup can be done on this article to make it comply with wikipedia standards relating to Point of View.

Counter-Point to above: Keep in mind however, the son of Roy DeMeo would not be a fair viewpoint, especially considering he gets facts about his own father's status in the mafia wrong a number of times in his book. An example of this is his numerous remarks of his father being a mafia 'capo', when in fact Roy DeMeo was never an official capo, his highest rank achieved was soldier. While it is difficult to trust Jerry Capeci to be 100% neutral in the telling of Roy DeMeo's life, it is even more difficult to expect the son to be completely honest (or even know much about) the darker side of his father's life.

It should also be noted that, aside from Roy's immediate family, a number of sources used in the book Murder Machine were in fact DeMeo's close friends and family, such as his uncle Albert, who was a famous prosecutor in New York. None of the people interviewed were given any payment for their help.

Posted by Dugrad: I am removing the NPOV tag on the article. Put it back in if you still feel the article is not neutral, however keep in mind Albert DeMeo's book contains factual errors and has just as much, if not moreso of an agenda than the book Murder Machine. Also keep in mind that a good deal of the information used for Murder Machine was taken directly from old neighborhood friends, business associates, as well as relatives of DeMeo, none of whom were paid for the information they provided. Also keep in mind that much of the information used was taken directly from court records, police files and testimony from witnesses who worked with DeMeo for years. There are rewrites underway in this article with the intention to eliminate many errors as well as to add more information.

Roy Albert DeMeo

According to the Cemetery, in Middle Village, Queens, where DeMeo is buried his middle name was Albert.

This Article is Way Too Long

This article needs some serious editing - it is much longer than articles on much more important mob luminaries such as Vito Genovese, John Gotti, Lucky Luchiano, or even Al Capone. Who wants to read a major opus on a minor criminal? Rogermx 21:40, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

This article is NOT too long. It's interesting. This guy was anything but a "minor criminal". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.148.210.141 (talk) 05:23, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Agree 100%. While Roy DeMeo may not be in the "household recognition" category like other "pop culture" New York Mobsters, he was an unquestionably key figure that played a central role in some of the mobs most infamous killings. Eventually, there will be a movie about him and when there is, people will know him just as they know names like Genovese or Gotti. --LoverOfArt (talk) 20:40, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree. Compared to all the other books about mobsters and the mafia, the Demeo saga is by far the most exciting, terrifying and above all--well told. In fact I wish there was more information on their exploits.--Rawoyster (talk) 02:49, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Regarding the picture of Roy DeMeo with Joey Testa and an unidentified third person, does anyone know who the third individual is? I doubt that he is Anthony Senter. I wonder if he is Henry Borelli? 68.166.237.166 (talk) 05:45, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

If the photo really was taken in 1982, Henry Borelli was already in Federal prison on the Empire Boulevard auto-theft charges. Dugrad (talk) 21:52, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

DeMeo Artifacts on eBay

On Demeo selling his Dad's old stuff: Back in September he was selling this 1970s brown leather jacket and it was f**kin' dope! I wanted it. I think it ended up selling for like $700. And you know what, I would've worn it. Imagine that? Hell, I live in New York City, so it would've been too far from home. Woulda Shoulda Coulda

Rawoyster (talk) 06:19, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I almost bought a Roy DeMeo tie clip from the son on eBay. It was going for $140. I backed off because I was in a financial crunch at the time. If I had bought it I definitely would have worn it too. Kenmore (talk) 03:42, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

I must admit, I am starting to get a bit cynical about the endless stream of stuff he seems to have. A lot of it coincides with precisely the same sort of stuff you can find in a goodwill in the "post ebay" era. Neckties, old articles of clothing, cheezy nick-nacks, odd stemware, ashtrays... Of course, things like DeMeo associated pistol grips and what not bring hefty prices, but given that one can buy a huge lot of old junk pistol grips on ebay for $20 or $30 but all of a sudden they're bringing $100 PER PAIR when associated with DeMeo, well, methinks the old man would probably be having a good laugh over this scam if he were here today. I dunno. If it was one burst of items- just "cleaning out the attic", I might have bought it... When it's a constant stream of "Original Roy DeMeo" kitch that never seems to end, methinks there might be a bit of dishonesty going on. Kinda ironic, huh? --LoverOfArt (talk) 02:33, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah I know what you're saying. With alot of the items you could just pull them out of the attic or go to a flea market and pick up anything made pre 1983 and presto $$$$. He's making some bank off this stuff. I wish my dad was a mafia hitman. Er, well...maybe not. Rawoyster (talk) 01:46, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Is Albert in need of money? I thought he was well-off. Roy gave him everything. Why not keep all these items for himself?? Also when is the movie Fountain Ave coming out?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.30.19.147 (talk) 20:34, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, the basic gist would be; why bother keeping insane amounts of clutter that's irrelevant to the memories of your father, when those same things could be sold on ebay, with 'notarized certificate', and sold for a good bit of money? I mean, cups, ties, nick nacks, etc, it's all just junk. The catch is, if anyone was paying attention to the insane volumes of stuff that was being sold at that time (going on 3-4 years ago now), it was quite clear that the whole thing was likely a scam- associating fraudulent "Roy DeMeo Provenance" to run of the mill thrift store junk (cheap glassware, ties, cufflinks, etc). The sellers got clever and realized that salacious things like knives, grips from handguns, etc tended to bring *a lot* more money so sure enough, before you knew it, an endless supply of those started to hit the market, complete with 'notarized certificate' saying that they once belonged to Roy. Whoever was doing the selling is laying low for now, but I'm virtually certain that it was a scam. If not, then Roy wouldn't have had any time to kill anyone, as he was apparently too busy hording as many tie clips, keychains and nick nacks as he could get his hands on. My hunch? Some of the early stuff was probably really Roy's, cleaning out the attic, sell it on ebay and see what kind of interest it brings. After the first batch of auctions closed for big prices, the seller suddenly realized that people were willing to pay $900 for a crappy old Blazer jacket that he could buy for $5 from a thrift shop, if he was willing to affirm it had once belonged to dear old dad. Any doubt what happened next? From there forward, associating garage sale junk to Roy DeMeo became a VERY lucrative one man ebay business. LoverOfArt (talk) 05:25, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

The ebay material is junk. I know this after purchasing a tire gauge from his son that he claimed was in the trunk of his fathers car. While following another auction it became apparent there was a never ending stream of items being sold as belonging to Roy. I also noticed that in one picture of an item, the person taking the picture was indeed Albert Demeo. So he created a persona, a make believe person, that stated he was selling items for Albert. Not true. It was Albert selling the items himself, there was no "friend" selling these items. The clincher to the fabrication was an auction for a set of Pistol grips for a Ruger P85/89 semi auto 9mm. The auction had a cute saying, not paraphrased,"My father used these grips for some of his "heavy work". End quote. The problem is that particular pistol was not even designed until 1985, long after Roy Demeo was dead. Albert had screwed up by selling an actual item that could be dated. When I wrote Albert, he admitted the fraud basically, asked me not to say anything to any bidders(at the time you could), and that I would get a special signed book along with an authentic cancelled check from Roy Demeo. Albert did send an autographed book, and the check, however I was surprised he did not stop the auction. Someone bought a set of used $15 pistol grips for $70. To this day he still sells on ebay, and my email to him was over 5 years ago. So perhaps some of the early, early auctions were real, but 99% of it is just goodwill material.--Backupscs (talk) 20:58, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

First Murder

As far as I can remember, in the book The Ice Man: Confessions of a Mafia Hit Man by Philip Carlo, Rothenberg was killed by Richard Kuklinski and also, as Kuklinski tells it, DeMeo had been killing for a long time before that.

I'll double-check this fact, but I'm %99 sure about it. AC (talk) 16:17, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

• Richard Kuklinski's biography, The ICEMAN, written Phillip Carlo, is a fraud. You cannot separate the fact from the fiction in it because it's mostly fiction. If you go back to the HBO specials (there were three of them), Kuklinski's claims of working for, and killing Roy DeMeo, only occur after the book MURDER MACHINE was published. This guy read every Mafia book he could get his hands on in prison and just spun a story that Phillip Carlo bought and wrote -- lock, stock and barrell -- and that people continue to believe when they read his fraudulent book. I can't believe there are so many gullible people out there that believe what is in that book. Did you believe his stories about killing a homeless man to test out a crossbow or taking a guy to a cave and letting him be eaten by man-eating super-rats? If so, I got a bridge you can buy. Also, Phillip Carlo thanked a composite character (multiple real-life investigators combined into one) that appeared in an earlier book on Kuklinski. How exactly did Phillip Carlo interview a person who doesn't exist? Because he lied -- because his book is a fraud from Kuklinski's wild, unbelievable claims to his own research for the book, which amounted to probably just reading the previous book on Kuklinski, which resulted in him thanking a nonexistant person for his help in writing the book. Lock & Key (talk) 09:02, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

• Lock--YOU ARE THE MAN! I couldn't have said it better myself. Phillip Carlo's The ICEMAN is total 100% horse-shit! Even in the 2nd and 3rd Iceman HBO specials, the "renound" and "expert" psychiatrist just nods yes to every lie Kuklinski spews at her. You'd think a medical degree would equal all-around smarts--I guess not.

Anyhow, Carlo's book is not only chock full of blatant, obvious lies but dozens of spelling errors and typos. I remember they referred to Chris Rosenberg on one page, then as Chris Goldberg on the next--WTF? In Carlo's book Kuklinski is all of a sudden the 6th member of the DeMeo gang--WOW! How come The Iceman didn't mention this in his 1991 HBO special? Because Murder Machine was published in 1992. It's no doubt that Kuklinski read Murder Machine and realized that it was the most hardcore mafia/crime saga ever composed and said: "Damn, these guys rule. I wish I could belong to their twisted folklore. I'll just add myself in there." And the sad part is that SO MANY stupid f**king people believe this shit.

Not to get off topic, but if Carlo or anybody else wanted to confirm Kuklinski's fairy tales, they should have just called or written some letters to the Gemini Twins and Henry Borelli(although I don't think he talks)--the original surviving members of the Real DeMeo gang. I'm out. Rawoyster (talk) 04:18, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Major Deletion

Removed material added 10 May 2008. It was POV, laudatory, unsourced. The tone indicated the possibility it was added by someone close to DeMeo in his lifetime. For all these reasons it was deleted. Tapered (talk) 02:51, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Rank

I changed the opening from 'was an associate of' to 'was a soldier in' the Gambino Family, on account of the fact that Roy WAS made and formally inducted into the organization, and therefore elevated to the rank of made man, or soldier, and was not just an unmade associate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.152.53.125 (talk) 23:54, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

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Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Roy DeMeo/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

I was born and raised right around the corner from the gemini lounge. I went too school with DeMeo that would be St. Thomas Aquinas grade school and grew up personally knowing most of his crew. I dont know much of Kuklinski. But if you folks dont think there are people out there that would shoot you with a weapon just to test it. Youre fools Tom from Nam

Last edited at 22:56, 2 March 2009 (UTC). Substituted at 04:58, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

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Carlo's book

User:Avaya1, What evidence do you have that suggests that Carlo's book is not reliable? I would be more sympathetic with the edits if you can explain.

Adding so much from WP:Fringe theory to the article is undue, especially as the source itself retracted the claims in the ensuing controversy. Avaya1 (talk) 18:54, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

Here are the policies on fringe theories as propagated in this article: "The notability of a fringe theory must be judged by statements from verifiable and reliable sources, not the proclamations of its adherents. Additionally, the topic must satisfy general notability guidelines: the topic must receive significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject." Avaya1 (talk) 23:48, 30 September 2019 (UTC)

In 2006, The New Jersey Record ran an article quoting law enforcement figures disputing the accuracy of Carlo's Book on Kuklinski. I would consider Carlo not a reliable source. Harizotoh9 (talk) 23:19, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Not a "soldier"

A "soldier" doesn't run his own crew. Roy DeMeo was a Gambino Family capo. Geoffroi 00:35, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

He was a soldier in Nino Gaggi's crew. DeMeo oversaw a group of associates who ultimately reported to Gaggi, the capo. Roy was acting captain of the crew when Gaggi was in prison in 1980/81. Shaolin Punk^{talk • contribs} 17:44, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

He was a made guy, not a capo. Harizotoh9 (talk) 01:09, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Kuklinski

Why is Kuklinski mentioned in this article? There is zero evidence other than his own bragging that he was involved in any mafia related business. Other well known Gambino soldiers don’t even mention him. I don’t understand why he’s included in this article at all? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1002:B12A:2F9F:5CD4:A350:234D:B0E7 (talk) 15:26, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

I agree fully. The evidence is shoddy at best and relies on self-serving stories Kuklinski told years after being incarcerated. Kuklinski tells a lot of tall tales that are WP:FRINGE, including his claim that he killed DeMeo. I remember hearing that surveillance of DeMeo only saw Kuklinski once going into the Gemini lounge briefly. Harizotoh9 (talk) 23:04, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Remove multiple issues template?

The template claims that additional citations are needed and that the article lacks inline citations; if this was an issue in the past, it seems to have been corrected. There's a citation for nearly every sentence in the article. I think it's time to remove the template. Global Cerebral Ischemia (talk) 13:57, 17 October 2021 (UTC)