Talk:Reginar Longneck

name of the article

Does anyone disagree that the name of this article probably needs to be changed? If anyone really does disagree, one issue to fix is finding evidence that Reginar I was "Duke of Lorraine"?--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 10:57, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

If no one has a problem I will probably move this to "Reginar I Longneck".--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 18:17, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

In that case, no need for a numeral. "Reginar Longneck" would be better. I have no objection. Rüdiger E. Barth, Der Herzog in Lotharingien im 10. Jahrhundert (Thorbecke, 1990), apparently has a lot to say about whether he was Duke of Lorraine or not. (I do not have the book and don't read German.) Srnec (talk) 19:36, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll keep putting in sources and improving while we see if there is more feedback.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 23:25, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Regarding "kingdom" – I think it is correct to refer to it as a kingdom (regnum) because this is how it was understood at the time, as when it switched allegiance in 911 and again in 923. It was a kingdom electing its king. But the word could be dropped without loss. Srnec (talk) 00:27, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

I see a move has happened. In the meantime I became aware that Reginar's grandson is also sometimes called Longneck in medieval sources, and he might even be the only one who had the name in life. So I still think the "I" would be appropriate?--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 07:28, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

I have personally always hated combining numerals and nicknames. But I see that Reginar III is sometimes called Longneck here. Srnec (talk) 23:47, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

I think with some of these articles we need to accept least worst solutions for the names. :) --Andrew Lancaster (talk) 10:03, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

Surtsicna I see that we've now moved this to Reginar Longneck despite the fact the discussion above of Srnec of myself which pointed out that there are several people referred to that way. I understand from the edsum that this is based on a strict interpretation of "ordinal or epithet but not both" as a rule, although it was decided to make an exception here. If we seriously have to choose then I think the ordinal is necessary because it is the clearest way to identify this person under those circumstances.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 10:39, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

I am sorry for the unilateral move, Andrew Lancaster; it did not occur to me that the matter might have already been discussed. It appears that Reginar Longneck refers exclusively to this man in English-language sources, so he is at least the primary topic. The name Reginar I Longneck does not appear in any book available on Google Books. Reginar I is a plausible title, though I struggle to find it anywhere other than in genealogy publications. History books appear to prefer "Reginar Longneck". Surtsicna (talk) 11:13, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

I don't have a simple solution to be honest, but I guess we need to improvise a bit. He is indeed commonly referred to as Reginar Longneck, but the medieval sources used the same term to refer to some of his descendants, and I think we should see it as a priority to distinguish him from them. Making it difficult is the fact that in this period titles are a bit different than in later periods. Dudo called him a Dux, but I think this is often understood as a military position, and Dudo not seen as a good source. I am open to suggestions.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 11:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Just to be clear, I find this new name less troubling than the old name where he was Duke of Lorraine. Defining titles in this period is a bit confusing. I personally would not mind calling him Reginar Longneck (Duke), although most readers with any medieval interest are going to assume this means he had a geographical duchy (which might be true, but is not really known).--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 18:37, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

I think the new title is fine. A hatnote to Reginar III would be sufficient. Srnec (talk) 01:17, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Done. --Andrew Lancaster (talk) 08:54, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Wives & mothers

Hello. This article says Alberada was the mother of Reginar's children, but the page for ReginarII, Count of Hainaut (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reginar_II,_Count_of_Hainaut) says his mother is Hersinda. Which is it? Jupe77 (talk) 02:02, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

I don't think we can use it as a source here, but there is a short explanation here (which gives other sources): https://fasg.org/projects/henryproject/data/regin001.htm In the end there is very little known about most people in this period. --Andrew Lancaster (talk) 13:29, 29 April 2023 (UTC)