Talk:Progoni family

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The first Albanian state? edit

Latest comment: 13 years ago3 comments1 person in discussion

Text in the article	Text in the source
The House of Progon was an Albanian noble house and family who led the first Albanian state,..	little arbanon, shut away in the hinterland, with its main political center in Kruja, opted for a continuing attachment to the Orthodox tradition and for subjection to Epiros, as well as alliance to Serbia...

What is the reason for this misinterpretation of the source with claim about existence of the Albanian nation state in medieval Europe?--Antidiskriminator (talk) 06:39, 3 May 2011 (UTC)Reply

@Gaius Claudius Nero: This was not the first time that you change referenced text without explanation or providing additional citation. You did it before. Taking in consideration context of such changes, someone could see it as tendentious editing. Also, Wikipedia:Don't hijack references says: Don't change referenced text and leave the original reference.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 00:15, 5 May 2011 (UTC)Reply

(N)POV edit

“The House of Progon was an Albanian noble house and family who led the first Albanian state”

There are scholars who published works with information about attempts of Albanian nationalist to produce an image of Albanian nation as a seamless continuity from medieval ages by positing the first instance of nation-state-building in Europe:

Nixon, N., Always already European: The figure of Skënderbeg in contemporary Albanian nationalism, National Identities, vol. 12, March 2010, Routledge, doi:10.1080/14608940903542540, retrieved May 3, 2011, (From abstract)"Albanian nationalism produces an image of the nation as a seamless continuity ... by positing an original, self-conscious, medieval political unity as the first instance of nation-state-building in Europe." {{citation}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |1= (help); More than one of |author= and |last= specified (help)CS1 maint: extra punctuation (link).
Schwandner-Sievers, Stephanie (2002), "Invention of nationalism: Myth and amnesia", Albanian identities: myth and history, USA: Indiana University Press, p. 43, ISBN 0-253-34189-2, ..an episode taken from medieval history was central for Albanian national mythology. In the absence of medieval kingdom or empire the Albanian nationalists choose Skanderbeg.... {{citation}}: Cite has empty unknown parameters: |laydate=, |editorn-last=, |doi-inactive-date=, |editorn-link=, |nopp=, |separator=, |laysummary=, |editorn=, |editorn-first=, |month=, |chapterurl=, |author-separator=, and |lastauthoramp= (help); More than one of |author= and |last= specified (help); Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help); Unknown parameter |firstn= ignored (help)

Even Robert Elsie, who is Albanophile, stated:

Elsie, Robert (2003), Early Albania : a reader of historical texts, 11th-17th centuries, p. viii, ISBN 3447047836 9783447047838, OCLC 52911172, ...Albanians did not succeed in creating a genuine State of their own during the Middle Ages or during the centuries of the European Renaissance. {{citation}}: Check |isbn= value: length (help); Cite has empty unknown parameters: |laydate=, |editorn-last=, |coauthors=, |doi-inactive-date=, |editorn-link=, |nopp=, |separator=, |laysummary=, |editorn=, |editorn-first=, |month=, |chapterurl=, |author-separator=, and |lastauthoramp= (help); More than one of |author= and |last= specified (help); Unknown parameter |firstn= ignored (help)

I think it is clear that we have to follow WP:NPOV and "Avoid stating seriously contested assertions as facts." Positing any medieval fiefdom as state of Albanians, or doing it without representing "all significant views" is against NPOV. Additionally the source for the claim about first albanian state is tertiary source which is given undue weight comparing to other contemporary secondary sources. I will delete information about "the first Albanian state" within a week period if nobody present arguments grounded in relevant wikipedia policies and contemporary (published in last 20 years) secondary sources written by scholars.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 08:05, 5 May 2011 (UTC)Reply

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