Talk:Pocatello (Shoshone leader)

Warning in 1863

I would like to find a reasonable citable source for the part of this article that states:

In January 1863, Pocatello received advance notice of the advance of U.S. Army troops from Fort Douglas under Colonel Patrick Edward Connor, who had set out to "chastise" the Shoshoni. Pocatello was able to lead his people out of harm's way from the Army, thus avoiding the catastrophe of the Bear River Massacre.

Since I'm doing some significant work on the Bear River Massacre, I highly doubt that there was any specific warning that anybody recieved that would have been sufficient to avoid getting caught in the Bear River Massacre. Indeed, it seems likely that Pocatello would have tried to stay and help fight off the U.S. Army instead in what possibly could have been a military victory against Connor had he stayed. Or that all of the Shoshoni bands would have broken camp and all left with Pocatello.

Something about this just doesn't seem to sound right here, given the fact that at Boa Ogoi (the encampment of the rest of the Shoshoni in Franklin County, Idaho, then Washington Territory) there were three different bands of Shoshoni who were camped together, in addition to Pocatello's band, if he had been present.

In addition, there is very little to indicate that those Shoshoni present were expecting a punitive military expedition. Particularly as significant to relocation as suggested here by any large group, including Pocatello's band, would have put the lives of many people, particularly the elderly and children, at huge risk simply due to exposure to incredibly cold weather. While I might think that temperature inversions could have been happening at the time (a common experience to Cache Valley), it should be of note that when the soldiers arrived in Franklin, that many had their whiskey rations freeze in their canteens. That is clearly sub-zero temperatures and not something to be doing too much running around in unless absolutely necessary. Indeed, the soldiers of the 3rd California Volunteers nearly froze to death in their attempt to even show up for battle in the first place.

Basically, I am calling to question that this really did happen. Certainly an interesting story of strong leadership and perhaps a part of tribal legends, but I highly doubt that this occured. --Robert Horning 00:00, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Having done a little more research, and according to Shoshoni accounts of what happened with the events of the Bear River Massacre (according to decendants of Chief Sagwitch), there was a major gathering of Shoshoni at the encampment in what is present-day Franklin County, Idaho for what was called the "warm dance", in effect celebrating the winter solstice. As many as 1500 Shoshoni were supposedly present on this occasion, and was held only a couple of weeks prior to the events of the Bear River Massacre itself. It may be possible that Chief Pocatello had been present at this gathering with members of his "band" or group that stayed with him. After the celebration, the group disbursed and only the bands of Chiefs Bear Hunter, Sagwitch, and Sanpitch remained.

BTW, this same account (in a copyrighted appendix to the book titled Bear River Massacre by Newell Hart) was rather negative toward Pocatello and claimed that this Shoshoni chief was in fact a usurper and was not considered a chief by the rest of the Shoshoni nation. That is, of course, an exceptionally strong POV. --Robert Horning 22:05, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Keying in late here; my grandfather was a Shoshone from the Saline Valley and he always insisted that Pocatello's band knew nothing about the Bear River Massacre. It was basically a fluke that Pocatello's band was not among the slain Shoshone that day. Arbitrarily, Pocatello had decided to leave the winter celebrations a few weeks early to get started hunting elsewhere. When he learned of the massacre in hindsight, he was shocked. He later went back to see if anything could be done about a burial, but found the surrounding area too congested with less than friendly Mormons. Thus the skeletons were left lying on the ground for years. (I'm going by tribal oral tradition here, I know.)

The claim that other Shoshone saw Pocatello as a usurper is definitely not true. On both Fort Hall and Wind River he is often remembered and well loved. If you google "Lemhi Shoshone Council" you can find a photograph of him seated with Chief Tendoy, among others, while they met with the US army to discuss negotiations. (This is one of the only extant photos of Pocatello that I know of. The other one is on display on the official Lemhi Shoshone website, where he's seen posing with Tendoy and a white fellow I don't recognize.) Certainly the other Shoshonean chiefs would not have tolerated Pocatello's presence at these kinds of important meeting if they thought him a usurper; his band was a small one, and they could easily have turned him away.

If I can find some good published sources to back this up, I will cite them ASAP. But just wanted to weigh in with what I know, late though it is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.190.40.37 (talk) 09:03, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

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