Talk:Piers Linney

Nationality

Asitshouldbe his Nationality is listed in the infobox so it doesn't need to be mentioned twice. Also I don't know what you have against someone being 'English' but it is common on Wikipedia to describe some by their home nation nationality so please stop removing it because your editing seems to be nothing more than vandalism now. --Comnenus (talk) 12:12, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

In WP:OTRS Ticket:2016030110018364 a user writes in to propose text be changed from "is an English business man" to read - "is a British business man". These sources are provided as supporting evidence backing that change.

• Yanney, Albert (n.d.). "Brit-AfriCarib IT Entrepreneur Piers Linney Joins BBC Dragons Den Panel". The British Blacklist. Retrieved 4 March 2016.
• staff (14 March 2013). "Dragon's Den UK has new Black member". Anancy Magazine.

@Comnenus, Jdcomix, and KrakatoaKatie: in the article's history, it looks like this editing suggestion has been reverted many times. Could I ask that any of you please comment here about the extent to which these are reliable sources for backing this change to the article? In the future, anyone who wants to discuss that topic may be able to see what is posted here. Thanks. Blue Rasberry (talk) 18:48, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

The first source only mentions 'Brit-AfriCarib' rather than specifically saying' 'British' whilst as far as I see the second doesn't mention it at all. As I stated before (to the IP) his nationality is already listed in the infobox so there is no reason to add it again yet that IP is obsessed with changing it to anything other than just English despite consensus being against him/her. The few times I got a response from them it appeared Mr Linney's mixed race was the issue with having him described as 'English', which is odd.--Comnenus (talk) 19:18, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

Though I wasn't pinged, I'd like to participate here. The two articles listed above have identical text and both appear to have been scraped from The Voice (newspaper)'s "BBC hires black dragon". and fitted with new headlines. It does not describe Linney as British. It does say that his father was English and his mother Bajan; our article adds that he was born in Stoke-on-Trent, a city in England.

There have been many attempts to change the description of Linney as English, by three SPAs (Asitshouldbe, Contribute100, User:Lisboa100) and from so many different IP addresses that it is hard to believe we're not seeing IP-hopping. They have never discussed the matter on this talk page, though Comnenus opened this discussion very early, and even though the article is now protected - which may have prompted the OTRS ticket - this talk page is not. They have tried to describe him as "a businessman", "a British businessman", "an English/Bajan businessman" and "a Bajan/English businessman"; it seems the description as "English" is unacceptable to them because he has a mixed ethnic background. But we do not discuss ethnicity in the lead, per WP:BLPLEAD "Ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead...". "English" commonly means someone from England, without regard to ethnic background, and is being used in that way here, as is normal for BLPs (e.g. Donald Trump, Jr. "is an American businessman", Richard Branson "is an English business magnate"). The OTRS ticket presents no reason, in policy or fact, to deviate from this. NebY (talk) 19:58, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

How this wasn't protected months ago is anyone's guess. The article originally stated "British" and it was changed with no edit summary and no rationale here [1], and it's been junior playtime ever since. Neb Y is right that ethnicity should never be covered in the lead (unless specifically related to the subject's notability), so that's that. Being of mixed race obviously does not preclude anyone from being English, or Scottish, or Welsh etc if that's how they self-identify. I don't know anything about Linney – how does he self-identify? If he self-identifies as English, then that is the end of it. Do we have any sources describing him as English? If we don't know, then it should say British as his British citizenship is apparently incontrovertible (according to the infobox), regardless of where he was born. Not everyone born in England identifies as English. Bretonbanquet (talk) 20:27, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

I disagree with the above, being mixed race does preclude one from being English, Welsh, or Scottish. Self-identifying does not make it correct, ie; calling a Ford a Honda, does not make the Ford a Honda, it just makes the description incorrect. Equally, a previous posting states, English means someone from England, this is incorrect, being English means one parents are English, it has no bearing on ones place of residence. Asitshouldbe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Asitshouldbe (talk • contribs) 17:27, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Pardon me, but that's an absolute crock, and your vehicular analogy is a nonsense. There is no set criteria for "being English". Basically, anyone who says they're English is English (whether you like it or not), and it's up to others how to judge the claim. Some believe you just need to be born in England; some believe (as you apparently do) that you need some degree of English parentage, while others consider themselves English with no parentage or place of birth to back that up. Nobody can "prove" them wrong because there are no criteria in law to be met. It's a subjective thing; an amorphous concept in real terms. Even assuming good faith, I detect a very unpleasant angle in your post. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:19, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Re: The above post by Bretonbanquet:

To state, "that's an absolute crock" and "I detect a very unpleasant angle to your post" is out-of-order. All my statements, are based upon fact, they are not my opinions, or wishes.

To further state, "anyone who says they're English is English" this is not fact at all.

Clearly, I am at fault as I foolishly thought Wikipedia's mantra was to to provide factual information. Obviously, I am incorrect and will now distance myself from Wikipedia.

Apologies to those of you who believe in the facts being posted.

Asitshouldbe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Asitshouldbe (talk • contribs) 14:49, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

If your statements are based on fact, you'd have no trouble providing reliable sources to back them up, and I see nothing here from you along that line. You make things up as you go along, and I reiterate my comment that your post had very unpleasant connotations. In fact, I think I'm being pretty kind. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:26, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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Neutrality

Just come across this page and have serious reservations about its neutrality and general tone. Going to make some initial edits to try and improve this but happy to take on board any comments.

Trumpkinius (talk) 11:06, 1 August 2018 (UTC)