Talk:Operation Scherhorn

Move/merge suggestion

Shouldn't it be moved to the original Soviet name - Operation Berezino (sic: with o)?

And, another point, since the Berezino was a development of Operation Monastyr by the same men (Pavel Sudoplatov, Nahum Eitingon, Demyanov-Heine, Willy Fischer et al.), shouldn't it be expanded in scope to cover both stages?

East of Borschov 20:45, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

I am having difficulty locating sources about this subject, but I will include the Russian name of the operation in the article. ~BLM (talk) 22:06, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

It seems that all English language (apart from the one mentioned on your talk page) sources ultimately rely on Pavel Sudoplatov's memoirs (1995 English ed.). The official Russian statements are a diluted abstract of the same. My concern raised on BLM's talk page was not about using any of such sources, rather about using sources that all trace to a single statement made by a former specials ops man. It's detailed and fascinating and the govt says it's true but it still needs confirmation from independent sources. East of Borschov 02:54, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Again, it is very difficult to locate English language sources about this event. Somebody with expertise in Russian would be of great use right now. Until an independent source can definitively debunk the current sources used then I think that the current version of the article will have to suffice. ~BLM (talk) 04:11, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

I can put together the body of factual information from the eastern POV and post-war German press (with all the disclaimers brought above). As for the English sources, a lot of relevant info does not mention Heinrich Scherhorn at all. We need a) English edition of Reinhard Gehlen's memoirs, specifically the part on Agent Max b) the British sources about an alleged "German agent in Moscow" that the British promptly reported to Moscow c) the American sources about Gehlen's dealings in former agents (the same Max) d) the German sources pinpointing the identity of Heinrich Scherhorn. Ideally, there's also a Polish connection (Skorzeny sent some anti-Soviet Polish group through the Scherhorn channel, and some of them escaped immediate punishment) but, indeed, this will be quite difficult to prove. East of Borschov 06:34, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Ah, found splendid first-hand accounts by the German soldiers who were there. Primary sources, of course. East of Borschov 07:23, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Oh well I now realize what this Sean M. Mcateer guy meant. He simply reproduced a condensed abstract from Otto Skorzeny's memoirs. Skorzeny, indeed, presented the case as if he was confident that Group Scherhorn was real, with a touching eulogy... Gehlen did the same, with no particular sentiments. Trust no one. I'll post a detailed rewrite soon. East of Borschov 15:10, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for the help! I'm not used to editing WWII articles and have very few offline resources to consult, so the rewrite will be appreciated. ~BLM (talk) 23:43, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Removed GA tag and GA list nomination

The article relies mostly on primary sources - and what sources - memoirs of Soviet and German (Nazi and Stasi) special ops men. There's no third-party in-depth research; the less scrupulous authors merely reproduce Sudoplatov or Skorzeny, the cautious ones just mention the event in very brief summaries. I doubt that such an assortment of available sources can meet GA criteria #2 and #3, and quite likely #4 too. East of Borschov 19:08, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Операция Шерхорн

Никакой операции Шерхорн небыло.Был человек Шерхорн,_Генрих.Может быть увас она пишется как операция Шерхорн, но надо же писать так как оно было на самом деле.Кстати буду очень благодарен, если кто нибудь расскажет мне дальнейшую судьбу этого человека.Желательно на русском. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.153.188.22 (talk) 09:00, 13 November 2011 (UTC) А также буду очень благодарен если предоставите дополнительную информацию о Шеллере,_Эбергард_Фоне — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.153.189.22 (talk) 10:55, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

File:PA Sudoplatov 02.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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