Talk:Ogaden War

Somali Leaders of the Ogaden War in 1977

This is the second time I correct this website. There is NO ONE named Colonel Ahmed Haji Hassan in 1977. No such name served Somali Army as a colonel or or as a commanding officer in 1977 in all of Ogaden War Fronts. WE cannot even find a captain of the same name. PLEASE STOP ABUSING THIS HISTORY.

PLEASE do not add fictitious figures and titles.

Let us not insert alternative facts or fake news here. Please note that Somali officers in 1977 are well documented in many articles and books. Please do NOT change this list

Comment by IP

Please stop including the unknown or undocumented. There is no Colonel Hassan Cowl among the leaders of the 1977 Ogaden Campaign. PLEASE STOP REMOVING Abduulahi Ahmed Yussuf . PLEASE REFRAIN from adding Hassan Cowl. You dont help preserve history by doing that. DONT DO THAT— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:146:C900:8188:3CC3:5A38:E43E:B00D (talk) 05:51, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

If you register an account, you can add this page to your "Watchlist" (together with other pages) and you can verify that the latest changes are factual and accurate. Wikipedia needs you! Uglemat (talk) 10:50, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

WP:MilHist Assessment

A nice long article, with an infobox and a thorough and organized treatment of the subject. I like the flags in the infobox; they're a nice touch. The "Unknowns" under commanders seems odd - even if we don't know the names of the generals, I think it would be good to put the heads of state here; it's better than Unknown, and provides at least some continuity and understanding of events under a given person's rule. Otherwise, a fine article. Keep up the good work, and thank you in particular for giving such attention to what could otherwise be a rather obscure and esoteric subject. LordAmeth 17:22, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Size of Ethiopian army

At the start of the war the numbers of the Ethiopian army was 200,000 men. and a modern air force supplied by the US. All these facts are left out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.80.150.125 (talk • contribs)

This is a wiki so you're encouraged to fix any errors or fill in any holes. Please be sure to add n link to your source in the External links section or, if it's not a web resource, list it. Thanks, BanyanTree 03:39, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Number of USSR troops

34000 is exaggerated number and all the sources I checked indicates 1500 mixed military and diplomatic advisers,

biased article

the author of this version of the ogaden war is clearly bised in favor of Ethiopia. the suggestion that somalia choose to attack at that point in time becouse it felt ethiopean was weake is laughable. ethiopia had an army nearly four times larger than its somali counterpart and a more modern aircrafts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lee888 (talk • contribs) 15:40, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

I removed one liner "Ethiopians committed a serious war crime" we needs reliable source for this I believe — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.59.99.219 (talk) 20:06, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Size of the Ethiopean army

by the start of the ogaden war in 1977 the ethiopean army comprised of 200,000. by the end of the war this force was suplemented by 400,000 poorly armed militias to fight the insergents in eritrea and the ogaden.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Lee888 (talk • contribs).

Cite a reliable source for it, then. The data we have up now is based on a 1982 article in a respected journal. The source you added was from someone's web page (albeit better than a blog or random geocities page, but not as reliable as the source being used right now). The article states there were 44,000 in the military in 1974, with 41,000 in the Army, while it had grown to 75,000 in 1980, "supplemented by a militia of relatively full-time soldiers totalling 150,000, or ten divisions." If you want to include this number for militias in 1980, that's fine, but we'd have to include Somali militias as well. I doubt all of them were on the Ogaden front, as well, given that this was the time of the EPLF and ELF's largest amount of territory controlled before the time immediately preceding the fall of the Derg and also during the Red and White Terrors. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 19:49, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Note: I've added more sources and gone in depth with all the numbers from a recent (2000) assessment. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 22:26, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

well what evidence do you have to support your claim that my source is unreliable. i can cite the us library of congress country profiles on somalia, on whose report my refrence is based on word for word except for the number of the armed forces. also if you had read my refrence on the ogaden war you would of seen near the end a statemen form the makers of the site on.war.com statitng how they update their information yearly to make it is as accurate as possible. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lee888 (talk • contribs) 20:32, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Somaali-Tanks.jpg

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BetacommandBot 21:15, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Chinese Support

In the fact box, it was said that China supported the Somalis. I don't see anything that supports this claim. It looks like it's the US which supplied the Somalis. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.217.91.213 (talk) 11:07, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

IIRC, China sent some small arms and artillery pieces, nothing significant. Their support was mostly diplomatic, i.e., denouncing Soviet social-imperialism, etc. Siad Barre then started using Maoist terminology and began incorporating it into his own state ideology.--Countakeshi (talk) 15:24, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Origins of the war

This is badly written and is mainly information contained in other parts of the article, except with more bias. Should it be removed?

Bob19191 (talk) 22:28, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

biased how, could you ilaborate more. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lee888 (talk • contribs) 14:09, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Casualties

Article says 400 Cubans died? of 6000 or so deployed, yeah right, the fact of matter is the Cubans crushed the Somalis with little effort, and certainly did not lose this many killed, maybe killed and wounded put together (ie its common that for every dead you have 3-5 wounded so on). Somebody provide the factual numbers please.

Cheers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.231.217.247 (talk) 01:34, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Your source can't be 'Yea right'. Those communists definitely were slaughtered. 92.2.168.236 (talk) 08:30, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

File:Ogaden1977.png Nominated for Deletion

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Haud

Was the Haud "returned" to Ethiopia in 1948? The article on the Haud implies otherwise.Royalcourtier (talk) 03:52, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Lightning

Why is there no info at the immense speed of the Somali advance? It has been frequently been called a lightning offensive. AcidSnow (talk) 01:12, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

It was indeed a quick advance by the Somalian forces, AcidSnow. However, the martial retreat was slower; the Somali military was still occupying parts of southern Ethiopia when the ceasefire was signed. At any rate, the page should probably be moved back to "Ogaden War" since that is the WP:COMMONNAME. Middayexpress (talk) 17:20, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Yah is the common name. AcidSnow (talk) 21:59, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Ok, AcidSnow. Middayexpress (talk) 20:14, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

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Supported by

@Somajeeste: you have removed Egypt and Saudi Arabia from "supported by", saying that its WP:OR,[1] can you describe? Because the source "Somali Piracy and Terrorism in the Horn of Africa" by Scarecrow Press meets WP:RS. Capitals00 (talk) 16:38, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

the source does not mention support but "attempt of support", i thought support of these countries is very questionable , which needs multiple sourcing for such claim.Somajeeste (talk) 14:22, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

Effects of War

There seems to be a need for greater discussion had in the "Effects of the War" section on the role that the withdrawal of Soviet Union's aid from Somalia had on Siad Barre's governing legitimacy. Beyond the fact that allegiance was transferred to Ethiopia, there is no mention of the fact that the unifying project of Barre's scientific socialism was irreparably damaged by the rescinding of Soviet support -- a move exacerbated by the disaffection within the top échelon of military ranks NickFriedlich (talk) 05:35, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

Edit war

El C, I protected the article in this ongoing dispute. 76.66.162.171 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) and Joserchm are both pretty inept at communicating. What I do know is that 40,000 Somalis killed is an absurdly high number, given this source, for instance. We need some experts here, experts who also know how to edit Wikipedia in a collaborative manner. Drmies (talk) 02:35, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Reading is obviously not your strong suit. It said up to 40,000 killed, wounded, captured or missing. Joserchm (talk) 14:17, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Article is not written in a neutral POV

Some important points that need to be changed or added to the article to balance the current POV:

• Somalia lost half of its Air-Force, but so did Ethiopia (24 out of an estimated 34/40 Aircraft), the casualty figures between the two aren't significantly different. Somalia also quickly replenished its Air Force with the acquisition of 30 Shenyang J-6s from China and Hawker Hunters from Britain.
• Somalia lost one-third of its initial invasion force, but here again the figures between the two countries are not drastically different to single out Somalia in the lede. More importantly the Somali Armed Forces doubled in manpower during and after the war. The Ethiopian army also lost some of its most important divisions during the start of the invasion and Mengistu had to create an entire new militia as a result, which is why beyond a massive air-lift of arms, a significant force of Cuban and South Yemeni soldiers were also attached.
• More emphasis needs to be put on the fact that Somalia lost as a result of a direct Soviet military intervention. The counter-operation was led by a Soviet general and Soviet officers. This was nothing like Angola.
• The last of the regular units of the Somali Armed Forces did not withdraw from the Ogaden until 1981, which was a prerequisite of the US before it would supply the Somali Armed Forces.
• The anger against Siad Barre was not as a result of the invasion of Ethiopia, but against his domestic repression. The Somali rebellions were led by some of the most accomplished officers of the war, who were completely in sync with the wider Somali national conscience to free the Ogaden. The lede now creates the impression that these movements were started as a result of the invasion and not human-rights violations, which is a disservice in my opinion.
• There is no mention of Somalia in the aftermath bankrolling, training and providing passports to Meles Zenawi and Isaias Afwerki, leaders of the TPLF and the EPLF that fought in the Ethiopian civil war, and who both lived in Mogadishu. Somali support of these movements directly led to the collapse of the Ethiopian Empire, while Mengistu's support of anti-Siad Barre movements contributed to the collapse of his government.
• The lede should clarify that the Soviet Union did not switch sides until Somalia expelled 3,000 Soviet personnel from the country. The vague 'disapproved' lacks context, and ignores that the Soviet Union continued to supply the Somali Armed Forces as it advanced across Ethiopia, while also supplying the latter.
• There should be more info on the role of the US, China, Syria, Egypt, Iran, Romania, Israel and other countries during the war.

I'm compiling my sources for the above content, and will in the coming weeks create a more neutral-POV that takes into consideration the negative effects on both sides, be it material, manpower, political, or economic. --GoldenDragonHorn (talk) 15:39, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

I dont see a POV in the article, Regarding your points:

a) Somalia lost half of its Air-Force- This is half true because Somalia indeed lost all its fighter aircraft, see the number of Mig-17 and Mig -21 lost according to Tereke and other Soviet sources.
b) Somalia lost one-third of its initial invasion force - Could be since some sources consider Somalian losses as high as 20,000 killed.
c) More emphasis needs to be put on the fact that Somalia lost as a result of a direct Soviet military intervention - Half true it was Soviet planing and Cuban direct intervention, the introduction of Cuban T-62 tanks and the use of artillery helped Ethiopia and allies defeat Somalis forces since early 1978.
Regarding the last two points, agree with you the fact that Somalia expelled 3,000 Soviet personel as the main reason for the Soviet support on Ethiopia, regarding the role of other Cold War actors, I only saw Egyptian support on Somalia, so I added that last week.Mr.User200 (talk) 23:49, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Disruptive editing

70.53.105.60 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) - please stop your disruptive editing. Your edits do not satsify WP:V, because you refuse to cite sources in the article. Not only that, but according to you source the numbers came from 1976, a year before the war started. محرر البوق (talk) 16:27, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Soviet response to war

The opening of the article states, "Somalia's invasion of the region, precursor to the wider war, met with the Soviet Union's disapproval, leading the superpower to end its support of Somalia and support Ethiopia instead." According to Gebru Tareke's (2000, 654-6) article, "The Ethiopia-Somalia War of 1977 Revisited," cited in the sources, the Soviets continued to support both sides in the war, until Somalia's leadership expelled 1800 Soviet advisors. It was only then that massive Soviet aid, Soviet advisors, and Cuban troops decisively shifted the tide of the war. The sentence quoted above implies that the Soviets were bothered about violating another country's sovereign territory. But they weren't if it benefited their cause. Had Somalia won a decisive victory and emerged as the dominant power in the Horn, the Soviets would gladly have continued their support. At the same time, they would have continued to support the Marxist Derg regime in whatever rump territory of Ethiopia it continued to rule. 2603:6000:AB0B:3400:2164:4BF9:395C:759D (talk) 20:06, 9 February 2023 (UTC)