Talk:Nanchang uprising

Battle and Aftermath info added

My first time writing an article so it is probably not in the best format, should I make everything into one paragraph under each catagory? Or just leave it as it is? LuChang 03:11, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

As long as each paragraph is of sufficient length (I think they are now) it should be fine to leave them as-is. -- Миборовский 18:20, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

"Under the command of Zhu De and Chen Yi who had fake names, the remaining regiment seek refuge under a local warlord in Hunan."

"He Long went to home after the defeat, with himself only. From an army commander who control tens of thousands of men to begger, he was not well received by his family except a few who were already communists. Soon He Long would rise another 3,000 soldier strong communist force in his native home but it would soon be wiped out by the nationalists, with only less than three dozen members surviving. It would take year for He Long's force to recover again for the third time."

Both of these need slight alterations. Also: Is there anyway you could list your sources too please? Tiwaking 20:38, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Picturs to upload?

I am still reading the rules and tutorials on uploading at wikipedia, if someone can beat me to uploading this picture of the monument of the August 1st uprising please do so. http://news.xinhuanet.com/ziliao/2003-07/28/xinsrc_87e312905fa64d2a9e110faf55785e1a.jpg

Would it qualify as public domain or free use? -- Миборовский 18:20, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not too sure, but it belongs to XingHua, the Chinese News outlet. LuChang 14:33, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Translation?

"第四集团军第二方面军的二十军、十一军二十四师和十师一部、四军二十五师两个团，第五方面军的三军军官教育团一部和南昌市警察武装，共两万余人。" The above were the participants of this battle, I can't remeber what the equivilant of 团 in English, is it brigade? LuChang 02:29, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Could someone also translate "中国国民党革命委员会" it would be great, I'm not good at translating political terms. LuChang 03:11, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

团 is regiment. Brigade is 旅. 中国国民党革命委员会 is the Revolutionary Committee of the Kuomintang. -- Миборовский 18:19, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

book as reference

Prithee, why is it that we are using such a controversial book as a reference? John Riemann Soong 21:49, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I added a paragraph on the political leadership. DOR (HK) (talk) 03:46, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Backgounrd Information Needed

There should be a background information section on the reason for this uprising.

Note how all current references are from anti-Communist sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Children of the dragon (talk • contribs) 09:06, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Right-wing or "Rightist" Kuomintang?

Rather than get into a revert war, I would like to open a discussion as to whether the KMT ca. 1927+ should be called the Rightist Kuomintang (including caps). As the KMT was a revolutionary movement against the deeply traditional warlords, it was at the time considered to be fairly leftist. Only in comparison to the CCP would it be considered right-wing. Comment? DOR (HK) (talk) 07:16, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Alternative Names

now that I have added them, we have the following issues

1. where to place them?
2. how to translate '南昌起事'
3. how to translate '南昌暴动/南昌暴動' -- 华钢琴49 (TALK) 19:35, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Seriously Inaccurate

This article is one of many poorly written and often grossly inaccurate description descriptions of events in modern Chinese history in Wikipedia. Even a minimally adequate revision would take more time than I have now. As a beginning though, note that the description of the Communist forces' order of battle is almost completely wrong. For reference purposes, here is the article's current description: ( Rgr09 (talk) 02:53, 14 February 2015 (UTC) )

The entire Communist force was organized into the 2nd Front Army, and over half of it was under He Long's command. He was also named as the Commander-in-Chief of the 2nd Front Army, and Ye Ting as deputy Commander-in-Chief and acting front line Commander-in-Chief. Communist representative was Zhou Enlai, chief of staff was Liu Bocheng and Director of the Political Directorate of the 2nd Front Army was Guo Moruo. The following is the order of battle for the Communist forces:

• 9th Army commanded by Zhou Enlai, with Zhu De as the deputy commander and Zhu Kejing (朱克靖) as the Communist Party representative.
• 11th Army commanded by Ye Ting, with Cai Tingkai as the deputy commander and Nie Rongzhen as the party representative.
  • 10th Division commanded by Cai Tingkai
  • 24th Division
  • 25th Division commanded by Zhou Shidi (周士第)
• 20th Army commanded by He Long and Liao Qianwu (廖乾吾) as the communist representative
  • 1st Division
  • 2nd Division
  • 3rd Division commanded by Zhou Yiqun (周逸群)

Below are some corrections. My source is Wang Chien-min's History of the Chinese Communist Party vol 1, pp 534-537.

The 2nd front army was not a Communist force, it was one of the main KMT military units. A front army is equivalent to an army group. It is a Russian term which was used by the KMT's National Revolutionary Army because the NRA was organized by Russian advisers. The 2nd front army was not commanded by He Long, it was commanded by Zhang Fakui, who was one of the most important KMT generals in the Northern expedition. Its chief of staff was Xie Yingbai, not Liu Bocheng. The 2nd front Political Representative was Guo Moruo, not Zhou Enlai. Zhou Enlai was never a part of the 2nd front army.

Ye Ting was neither the deputy commander in chief nor acting front line commander of the 2nd front army, nor, as stated below, the commander of the 11th Army. He was the commander of the 24th division of the 11th Army, one of the 2nd front's components. The commander of the 11th Army was Zhu Rihui. The Political Representative was Xu Minghong, not Nie Rongzhen. Cai Tingkai was indeed the commander of the 11th Army's 10th division. The 11th Army did not have a 25th division. The 25th division was part of the 4th Army, which is not mentioned in this article. Zhou Shidi was not the commander of the 25th division, its commander was Li Hanhun. Zhou was instead commander of the 25th division's 73rd regiment.

The 20th Army was indeed commanded by He Long, but the Political Representative was not Liao Qianwu, it was Zhou Yiqun. Zhou Yiquan was indeed the commander of the 20th Army's 3rd division. Liao Qianwu was the Political Representative of the 4th Army, but he was not the Communist party Representative, he was the KMT representative.

The 9th Army apparently was not part of the 2nd front army. The 9th army's commander was Jin Handing, not Zhou Enlai. According to Klein and Clark's Biographical Dictionary of Communist China, Zhu De was indeed deputy commander of the 9th Army. Zhu Kejing was not mentioned in Wang Chien-min's book, but according to the Chinese wikipedia article on him, he was the Political Representative in Zhu Peide's 3rd Army. Note again that Zhu's 3rd Army was part of the NRA. This was the KMT party army, and all its forces had Political Representatives. These Representatives were KMT Party Representatives, not Communist party representatives. Many of these representatives were also dual Communist Party members, and this was of course the subject of great controversy in the KMT.

In sum, what this description does is flip the actual situation on its head, asserting that the Communists who launched the Nanchang rebellion, several of whom were mid-ranking officers in the KMT's 2nd front Army, were the chief commanders of the military force that they revolted against. Why misrepresent the situation in this way? I have no idea. What should one done when one finds such gross inaccuracies in Wikipedia articles? Since the order of battle description (inserted by an unregistered user in 2008) is unsourced, it could just be removed on that basis. Rather than do that, I've put up this note for others to consider first. If the description is still there ten years from now, you'll know I never got back to this, and no one else thought it was worth bothering about. Rgr09 (talk) 02:34, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Along the same lines, we say the uprising was under the military leadership of He Long and Zhou Enlai, and then mention “other important leaders” Zhu De, Ye Ting and Liu Bocheng. While I agree these are some of the most famous participants (along with Nie rongzhen), our Order of Battle clearly shows that the actual military leadership was Zhou Enlai, Ye Ting and He Long.DOR (HK) (talk) 02:37, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

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