Talk:Michael John O'Leary

WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008

Article reassessed and graded as start class. --dashiellx (talk) 16:45, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Removed during clear-up

I removed the following information from the article primarily because I could not source it precisely enough. If anyone can help with this it would be great to restore it to the article.--Jackyd101 (talk) 18:51, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

The British Army featured a recruiting poster of “O’Leary VC”. The British also decided it would be a good idea to enlist Michael O'Leary's father’s support in the attempt to recruit more soldiers in his native Cork in Ireland. Frank Gallagher, editor of the Cork Free Press and later editor of the Irish Bulletin during the Anglo-Irish War, and of the Irish Press takes up the story:

“The news items which never survived the blue pencil of the British censor often decorated the newspaper office walls. The best was the recruiting speech of Michael O'Leary’s father in his native Inchigeela. For incredible bravery, his son had won the Victoria Cross, and the War Office took the father on to the recruiting platforms, or rather platform, for he did not last more than one meeting. His speech, as the censor killed it, was something like this:

“Mr. O’Leary, senior, father of the famous V.C., speaking in the Inchigeela district, urged the young men to join the British army. ‘If you don’t’, he told them, ‘the Germans will come here and will do to you what the English have been doing for the last seven hundred years’.” (excerpted from Frank Gallagher's Four Glorious Years, 1953. He wrote under the pen name David Hogan.)

Manus O'Riordan (head of research for SIPTU re-tells the story in the Ballingeary Historical Society Journal (2005).

His Victoria Cross is displayed at The Guards Regimental Headquarters (Irish Guards RHQ) (London, England).

O'Leary Lake in Prince Albert National Park, Saskatchewan, has been named in his honour.

For the location of his VC see [1]. DuncanHill (talk) 18:54, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

The Irish Guards in the Great War

Would the text describing O'Leary's actions from Rudyard Kipling's The Irish Guards in the Great War be of any use? I have the book, and I believe it to be public domain (author dies more than 70 years ago). DuncanHill (talk) 19:04, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Very useful, any detail, corrections, references or quotes would be great (quotes especially, perhaps in a nice blue box). I've been using Batchelor & Matson, so they should dovetail quite nicely. I was gonna take a run at GA with this, perhaps you'd care to join me?--Jackyd101 (talk) 19:34, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

From The Irish Guards in the Great War, Volume I, chapter "1915 La Bassée to Laventie" by Rudyard Kipling, first published 1923, this taken from pp. 76-77 of the 1997 Spellmount Limited edition.

Early in the morning of the 1st February a post held by the Coldstream in a hollow near the Embankment, just west of the Railway Triangle - a spot unholy beyond most, even in this sector - was bombed and rushed by the enemy through an old communication trench. No. 4 Company Irish Guards was ordered to help the Coldstream's attack. The men were led by Lieutenant Blacker-Douglas who had but rejoined on the 25th January. He was knocked over by a bomb within a few yards of the German barricade to the trench, picked himself up and went on, only to be shot through the head a moment later. Lieutenant Lee of the same Company was shot through the heart; the Company Commander, Captain Long-Innes, and 2nd Lieutenant Blom were wounded, and the command devolved to C.Q.M.S. Carton, who, in spite of a verbal order to retire "which he did not believe," held on till the morning in the trench under such cover of shell-holes and hasty barricades as could be found or put up. The Germans were too well posted to be moved by bomb or rifle, so, when daylight showed the situation, our big guns were called upon to shell for ten minutes, with shrapnel, the hollow where they lay. The spectacle was sickening, but the results were satisfactory. Then, a second attack of some fifty Coldstream and thirty Irish Guards of No. 1 Company under Lieutenants Graham and Innes went forward, hung for a moment on the fringe of their own shrapnel - for barrages were new things - and swept up the trench. It was here that Lance-Corporal O'Leary, Lieutenant Innes' orderly, won his V.C. He rushed up along the railway embankment above the trenches, shot down 5 Germans behind their first barricade in the trench, then 3 more trying to work a machine-gun at the next barricade fifty yards farther along the trench, and took a couple of prisoners. Eye-witnesses report that he did this work quite leisurely and wandered out into the open, visible for any distance around, intent upon killing another German to whom he had taken a dislike. Meantime, Graham, badly wounded in the head, and Innes, together with some Coldstream, had worked their way into the post and found it deserted. Our guns and our attack had accounted for about 30 dead, but had left 32 wounded and unwounded prisoners, all of whom, with one exception, wept aloud. The hollow was gull of mixed dead - Coldstream, Irish and German.

I have quoted the passage in full, to give context. DuncanHill (talk) 20:01, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

O'Leary's service number was 3556 (from Appendix C of The Irish Guards in the Great War). DuncanHill (talk) 20:03, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Thankyou very much, that was very helpful. I'm going to take a shot at GA now, please feel free to dip in if you have any thing to add.--Jackyd101 (talk) 11:40, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Michael John O'Leary/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Hi! I have elected to review this article under the Good article criteria, and should have my initial comments posted within the next hour. Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 12:03, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

I have now completed reviewing this article against the criteria, and although I am not yet prepared to list it as a Good Article it doesn't have far to go and I am placing it on hold. The areas of concern that are currently preventing promotion are listed below, and I will provide a space of seven days for these issues to be addressed or at least evidence that improvements are in the works. Well done so far, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 13:48, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

• The lead needs a light copyedit, as it is lacking in punctuation and reads slightly awkward in some areas.

• "During December 1914, O'Leary saw heavy fighting and was Mentioned in Despatches, achieving a promotion to Lance Corporal on 5 January 1915. On 30 January, O'Leary took part preparations for an attack on German positions near Cuinchy on the La Bassée Canal, a response to a successful German operation in the area five days before." - These two sentences do not read well, and need to be re-written.

reworded.

• "He continued to be rewarded for his service, being advanced to a commissioned rank as a second lieutenant with the Connaught Rangers,[8] and also being awarded a Russian decoration, the Cross of St. George (third class).[9]" - This sentence reads as if he was awarded the Cross of St. George due to either his fame, or service in recruitment.

reorganised the paragraph.

• The first mention of O'Leary's wife and children is in the "Later life" section. Do you know when the pair were married, children born, etc, that could be included earlier in the article.

I've got nothing. I found it odd too that the sources I was using only mention them at this point but I'm afraid I have nothing more to go on at this stage.--Jackyd101 (talk) 15:43, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, that is rather unusual. But, if that is all that is available then that's all that's available. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 00:46, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

• "O'Leary was buried at Mill Hill Cemetery following a funeral service at the Roman Catholic Annunciation Church in Burnt Oak which was attended by an honour guard from the Irish Guards and six of his children, including two sons awarded Distinguished Flying Crosses in the Second World War." - This sentence also reads slightly awkward, and would it be possible to mention about O'Leary's children earlier?

reorganised.

1. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   The final paragraph under the "Later war service" section is unreferenced, and needs to be.

Whoops, somehow missed that. Done.

1. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

2. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

3. It is stable.

   No edit wars etc.:

4. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

5. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Other comments

The following comments are not required to pass GAN, but are general comments on article improvement.

• As in the text it is referred to in the British/Commonwealth variant of "First World War". Perhaps consider changing the section heading from "World War I service" to either "First World War" or "First World War service".

Done.

• In the infobox, you have O'Leary's service years in the style "XX to XX". Maybe the use of an ndash would be more appropriate?

Done.

• Speaking of the infobox, consider including O'Leary's Mention in Despatches and Cross of St. George in the awards section along with his VC.

Done.

I just swapped around the order of the Mention in Despatches and Cross of St. George in the infobox so as to keep the British honours together. But, feel free to revert if you prefered it the other way. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 00:46, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Nope, thats fine.

Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 14:06, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks very much for the review, let me know if there are any further problems.--Jackyd101 (talk) 15:43, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Nothing further. A very well written and interesting article that has now passed GAN. Congratulations! Abraham, B.S. (talk) 00:46, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Thankyou very much.--Jackyd101 (talk) 01:00, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

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