Talk:Mór Ní Thuathail

Learn more about this page

This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Biography: Royalty and Nobility

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by WikiProject Royalty and Nobility (assessed as Low-importance).
	An editor has requested that an image or photograph be added to this article.

Ireland Low‑importance

	Ireland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ireland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ireland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IrelandWikipedia:WikiProject IrelandTemplate:WikiProject IrelandIreland articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	An image is requested for this article as its inclusion will substantially increase the significance of the article. Please remove the `image-needed` parameter once the image is added.

Middle Ages Low‑importance

	Middle Ages portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Middle Ages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Middle Ages on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Middle AgesWikipedia:WikiProject Middle AgesTemplate:WikiProject Middle AgesMiddle Ages articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Women's History Low‑importance

	History portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women's History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Women's history and related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women's HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject Women's HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Women's HistoryWomen's History articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Was she King Diarmait's first or second wife?

Latest comment: 11 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

"Mór Ní Tuathail (c. 1114–1191) was a Queen-consort of Leinster as the first wife of King Diarmait Mac Murchada. Under Brehon Law, Irish men were allowed more than one wife. King Dermot's second wife was Sadhbh Ní Fhaolain."

"Sometime about 1140 in Loch Garman, County Wexford, Mór was married to King Diarmait Mac Murchada of Leinster as his second wife, making her Queen-consort of Leinster. His first wife was Sadhbh Ní Fhaolain."

--79.225.4.54 (talk) 13:55, 23 January 2013 (UTC) RhondaReply

Incorrect citation of Charles Cawley

Latest comment: 6 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The article uses Charles Cawley's work from the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy but fundamentally mischaracterizes it. Here is the actual section where Mor appears. Cawley says there are no sources for her parents and lists only two of the three children as hers, the other belonging to an "unknown mistress". I do not know if Cawley is correct or the Wikipedia writer is. What I do know is their stories don't match.

Here is Cawley's entry via http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/IRELAND.htm#AoifeEvaMRichardPembroke.

DIARMAIT (-Fermanagh 1 May 1171). King of Leinster. The Annales Cambriæ record that "Diermit rex filius Murcath" was expelled from Ireland by his people and went to the English king, recording in later passages that he returned to Ireland and built "castellum Carrec iuxta Wisefordiam" in 1170, and died in 1172[693]. "Diarmicius Rex Lageniensium" donated "terram…Balidubgaill" to All Saints Dublin by undated charter witnessed by "…Enna filio meo…"[694]. The Annals of Tigernach (Continuation) record that Henry II King of England arrived in Ireland in 1171, went to Dublin where he received “the kingship of Leinster and of the men of Meath, Brefne, Oriel and Ulster”[695]. The Expugnatio Hibernica records the death "apud Fernas circa kal Mai" of "Dermitius Murchardi filius" [in 1171][696]. m [MOR, daughter of ---]. The primary source which confirms her marriage has not yet been identified. Mistress: (1152) DERBFORGAILL, wife of TIERNAN O'Rourke King of Breifny, daughter of MURCHAD O'Malaghlin King of Meath & his wife ---. The Expugnatio Hibernica records that "Dermitius…Murchardi filius Langeniensium princeps" eloped with "Ororicio…Medensium rege…uxor ipsius Omachlachelini filia" [in 1152][697]. The Annals of Tigernach (Continuation) record that “Diarmait Mac Murchada king of Leinster forcibly carried off out of Meath the wife of Húa Ruairc…Derb-forgaill daughter of Murchad with her wealth” in 1152, adding in a later passage that she “came again to Húa Ruairc by flight from Leinster” in 1153[698]. Diarmait & his wife had two children:

i) AOIFE [Eva] (-after 1189). The Annales Cambriæ record that "Ricardus comes de Striguil" invaded Ireland in 1171 and married "filiam Diermit regis"[699]. The Expugnatio Hibernica records the marriage of "filia…Dermitii, Eva" and Earl Richard[700]. She was styled Countess of Ireland in 1185, but Countess of Strigoil in 1186[701]. m (Waterford [26 Aug 1171]) RICHARD de Clare "Strongbow" Earl of Pembroke, son of GILBERT de Clare "Strongbow" Earl of Pembroke & his wife Isabel de Beaumont ([1130]-Dublin 20 Apr 1176, bur Dublin, Holy Trinity). In [1168] he promised Dermot King of Leinster to help him recover his kingdom in return for the hand of his daughter and eventual succession to the crown. He landed near Waterford 23 Aug 1170, and marched to Dublin. He acceded to the demand of King Henry II to surrender his Irish conquests to him and was granted Leinster in fee[702].

ii) URLACHAN . The primary source which confirms her parentage and marriage has not yet been identified. m DONOUGH [Donald] More King of Thomond, son of TADHG King of Thomond & his wife --- (-1194).

Dermot had three illegitimate children by unknown mistresses:

iii) ENNA (-1168 or after). "Diarmicius Rex Lageniensium" donated "terram…Balidubgaill" to All Saints Dublin by undated charter witnessed by "…Enna filio meo…"[703]. The Expugnatio Hibernica records that "Ossiriæ princeps Duvenaldus" [Dounchad [Donough] Lord of Ossory] blinded "Dermitio…filium eiusdem primogenitum"[704]. The Annals of Tigernach (Continuation) record that “Enna Mac Murchada crownprince of Leinster” was blinded in 1168 by “Donnchad Mac Gilla Pátraic king of Ossory”[705].

iv) CONNOR (-1170). The Expugnatio Hibernica records that "Dermitio" gave "filium suum Chuchurum" as hostage to Roderic of Connaught [in 1169][706]. The Expugnatio Hibernica records that Roderic killed Dermot's son [in 1170][707].

v) DOMNALL Caemanach (-killed 1175). The Annals of Ulster record the death in 1175 of "Domnall Caemanach son of Diarmaid Mac Murchadha king of Leinster…[slain]”[708]. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prydonia (talk • contribs) 23:23, 21 June 2018 (UTC)Reply

Add topic