Talk:Laisenia Qarase

listing of cabinets

this is not normal practice for a national leader's article. should be in its own article. LibStar (talk) 03:08, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Ancestry

On what basis did Vuataki say he had Jewish ncestry? I would guess that if he had any Christian ancestry, as the article also asserts, one of the christians would at some point had a Jewish ancestor. ButI thin you need to at least specify who thosew Christian and Jewish ancestors were. Otherwise, if it's based on his own assertion without specifics, say something like, "He has said, on the basis of family legend, that...." DGG ( talk ) 05:14, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

• If we can find an alternative source that contradicts Vuataki, then I agree, we'll have to dig deeper into where HE got his information from. As I know, Vuataki was/is one of Qarase's closest confidantes. And um, I don't quite follow your reasoning that "if he had any Christian ancestry ... one of the christians would at some point had a Jewish ancestor" — not necessarily, not all Christians have Jewish ancestors. But that's away from the point. More details — which I can't put in the article, because I cannot find reliable written sources: I happen to know that Qarase descends from a Jewish trader who settled in the eastern part of Fiji in the 1800s and married into a chiefly Lauan family. I'm still looking for written sources that will confirm that. But for the actual fact of Jewish ancestry — I've heard it from his own relatives. I've heard it from his political supporters. I've heard it from his political opponents. In other words, it's public knowledge. David Cannon (talk) 06:11, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

I said via Christian ancestors because there were many more Christians in 1941, but of course it is not the only possibility. Otherwise, I heard it from hisown relatives. The normal rule for ethnic ancestry BLP is that the subject must say so himself. Could you please cite the entire paragraph of the book in which the sentence appears, including any footnotes. Does the book, for example, say who they person actually is and what relationship to him? DGG ( talk ) 08:46, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Double-checking the article, I notice that the names of his parents are not given. This is very unusual for a person of his importance in the 20th/21st century. I can't imagine the information isn't available for their names and dates. For major political figures we also usually give at least the number of children, tho not necessarily their names.

and it might be a good idea to split out Cabinets of .....

If you;re wondering, I happened to see this because I noticed the category change to Fiji people of ... descent in checking CfDS.

for perspective about what I mean by family legend, there were three different stories about which city my maternal grandparents settled in when they came to America. It wasn't resolved till our family's genealogist looked up the census data, which nobody had previously thought of. There remain 2 stories of where my great-grandmother on that side was born. We know for my great-grandfather--she was from a more prominent family & there's a 1930's family history for them. DGG ( talk ) 12:58, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

• Thank you for taking the time to reply in detail — and to share some of your own personal story too. It's very interesting.
• I'm personally not surprised that it's hard to find written sources. Fiji was a very undeveloped nation back in 1941, when Qarase was born. Literacy was low — especially so in the outer islands, where he comes from. He was one of the "pioneers" from Vanuabalavu to get educated. His father was of chiefly stock, yes, but a village chief, not a high chief like Ratu Mara, Fiji's first PM, whose ancestry was thus much better documented (but even his family tree has some gaps, especially of the women in the line). I doubt that the British rulers paid much attention to Vanuabalavu while he was growing up, so the lack of documentation is really not very surprising. His daughter-in-law is a friend of mine so I could ask her, but that wouldn't pass Wikipedia's verifiability standards! Another complication is that surnames are not universal in Fiji, even today. I know his own children do use the Qarase name as a surname, but I doubt that his father did. Surnames only really became common after World War II, and even now, you can still find a significant number of people without them. As for Vuataki and his relationship to Qarase, I'll have a read of the book in the next 48 hours and see what I can find. From what I've heard, he worked for him (but that's just rumour)
• Yes, I agree, the cabinets should be split off. There's a massive amount of cleanup and reorganising required in the "Fijian department" on Wikipedia, and I don't know where to start. But you are welcome to join the WP:Wikiproject Fiji, invite others too, and get stuck in! We need a lot more hands on deck in this neck of the woods. David Cannon (talk) 13:39, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

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