Talk:LaSalle, Illinois

Actual name

I live here. The actual name is La Salle, NOT LaSalle. Chuck Norris III — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.57.211.46 (talk) 02:15, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Please see the new RM at #Requested move 2 April 2023, @Beerparty: BhamBoi (talk) 05:11, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

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External links modified

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CITY NAME

I just moved this page from LaSalle to La Salle because their official website [1] and Google Maps [2] both use the two-word version of the name. Also, when there was a major fire there, all the news articles referred to the city as La Salle [3][4][5][6].

One thing to note is that the Census Bureau uses one word (LaSalle) as their name for it. [7] BhamBoi (talk) 04:15, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Although I did find at least a dozen more sources with La Salle, there are still a few using one word, like this. BhamBoi (talk) 04:23, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

@BhamBoi: I'm inclined to move this article back to LaSalle. The Census Bureau using the name LaSalle is more relevant than news sources generally being mixed. While both are valid spellings, the Census Bureau is probably what we should stick with when there are inconsistencies. Elli (talk | contribs) 09:38, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Additionally, a page on the city's website about the city's history uses LaSalle repeatedly. Elli (talk | contribs) 09:40, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

It's very mixed. I think an RM may be in order, could you initiate it? Thanks BhamBoi (talk) 15:36, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

@BhamBoi: sure. Would you mind if I moved the page back first, though? Since that was the long-standing article title (since 2007) and there wasn't a discussion preceding your move. Elli (talk | contribs) 02:48, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

Go ahead. BhamBoi (talk) 02:50, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

I've reverted the move. Probably makes more sense for you to open the RM. If you don't want to deal with the templates, I'd be happy to do that part if you just post your nomination statement. Elli (talk | contribs) 03:25, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

It took me a while to compile the sources and format them on mobile, but it has been done. BhamBoi (talk) 05:06, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

History - explosion and fire

Shouldn't the January 2023 explosion at the Carus Chemical plant be included in the history section? https://presidentialwire.com/suspicious-chemical-plant-explosion-reported/ Kdammers (talk) 01:46, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 2 April 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Doesn't look like we can get a consensus here when even the local administration can't decide how it wants to be spelled. (closed by non-admin page mover) -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 20:39, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

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LaSalle, Illinois → La Salle, Illinois – The name of this town is either "LaSalle" or "La Salle", varying in both primary and secondary sources.

I will provide examples for both:

• LaSalle (current title)
  • [8] U.S. Census Bureau
  • [9] Official Facebook
  • [10] LaSalle Public Library
  • [11] TripAdvisor

• La Salle (proposed name)
  • [12] USPS
  • [13] Google Maps
  • [14] MapQuest
  • [15] GeoNames
  • [16] Britannica
• Mixed
  • Their official website is titled as "La Salle" but their info varies, even within the same page.
  • GNIS: 426997 (La Salle; Populated Place) and 2395636 (City of LaSalle; Civil (Though I think this one is generated from census data and would then, of course, inherit the name used by the Census Bureau))
  • The signs on I-80 E vary, with even adjacent signs using different spellings: "LaSalle" or "La Salle"
  • OpenStreetMap varies; it’s listed as both, but displays as "La Salle".
  • The Wikipedia draft for the Carus Chemical plant fire uses mostly "La Salle" with only one major news outlet using "LaSalle" [17]§References.
  • Their tourism website varies between titles and body text.

Also note: the county and township are both undeniably "LaSalle". BhamBoi (talk) 05:05, 2 April 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. ❯❯❯ Raydann^(Talk) 09:26, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

• Support using LaSalle (so oppose a move) as the U.S. census carries more weight, compared to varying usage elsewehere. Elli (talk | contribs) 05:59, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

  I think the Census made a decision, not a mistake to put it at the name it's on with the census bureau, but they do make mistakes that get published, so their accuracy is not to be blindly trusted:

  Port Gamble Tribal Community->Port Gamble Tribal Comunity (2010 Census)

  Le Raysville->LeRaysville (current)

  Mineral Wells->Mineralwells (current) BhamBoi (talk) 18:48, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

  Indeed, Google Maps and Britannica are listed as unreliable at RSP. Using Wikipedia drafts is circular sourcing. EpicPupper (talk) 22:31, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

  1. Neither Britannica nor Google Maps are listed as unreliable on RSP. Both are no-consensus, which is means they are not considered to be generally unreliable.

  2. I was referring to the sources cited by that draft, not the article itself. They show the usage in the news. I could add all of the sources here to show a majority using one name, but it figured it would just be easier to refer to the references section which cites reliable sources than to add them all here. BhamBoi (talk) 22:37, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Illinois has been notified of this discussion. ❯❯❯ Raydann^(Talk) 09:26, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Cities has been notified of this discussion. ❯❯❯ Raydann^(Talk) 09:26, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

More sources for both sides:

The local newspaper of record, La Salle News Tribune from Shaw Media is titled with two words.

The local chamber of commerce uses two words.

Niche uses one word.

Expedia uses two.

The Illinois Secretary of State uses two words.

Including sources for both sides. BhamBoi (talk) 05:18, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

This link for the Secretary of State is one word, and here's another from them. The News Tribune's website also says "More La Salle County Headlines" on its site, but this is again inconsistent with both official and otherwise common usage for the county (LaSalle County Complex) so why trust them? Sure would be nice to have some sort of explanation from someone or coverage like for the Colorado place I found. A few spots on Google Streetview with one word include City Hall and others [18][19], so even with examples the other way (possibly from an aversion to camel case), a move is not compelling. Reywas92^Talk 13:23, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

I definitely meant to type one for the IL Sec. of State above, fwiw BhamBoi (talk) 14:48, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Holy crap, this is honestly a bit embarassing. I'll oppose because the seal (as on the facebook page) and the city code both use LaSalle as the official name, and use of two words is not overwhelming enough to call that the common name. The Chicago Tribune uses one word, and it seems it should be consistent with the county and township. Reywas92^Talk 04:16, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

What's embarrassing? BhamBoi (talk) 04:29, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

That they can't figure out how to spell their own name! Their own websites that have multiple spellings on the same page! LaSalle, Colorado is similarly confused, apparently. Add the Illinois Secretary of State[20] to the one-word list, as well as the high school and local businesses and organizations like [21][22][23]. Something that's wild is that their archived website uses a different logo that looks more like one word and has one word in the text and address. To what extent either an individual or the city government made a conscious decision to change these is unclear, but I still don't think two words is widespread enough to override the legal name. Reywas92^Talk 05:27, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

I found the secretary of state source, and added it with a few others in a new comment above. BhamBoi (talk) 05:54, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Well, usage among city sources is not completely in favor of the one-word variation. For example, their official logo looks to me like two words, and their information page is titled "About La Salle | City of La Salle", using two words twice, in the title alone. (The body text alternates between the two spellings.) The mailing address listed on the city website uses two words, which makes sense because the post office in La Salle is listed online as two words. (It is interesting, though, that the building itself is labelled with one word. One of the other post offices in La Salle is listed online with two words and labelled in person with one.)

Also, the official names database for the U.S. uses two words.

You pointed out the Chicago Tribune using one word, and national news sources including CBS, Reuters and Fox agree. But I raise to you the local news sources, which are more likely to mirror local usage. WQAD from Moline, WIFR from Rockford, WMBD from Peoria all use "La Salle" in their coverage.

As for COMMONNAME, it states that other encyclopedias can help determine the common name, and Britannica uses "La Salle". In fact, it even calls the county two words.

The title of their tourism website is "Downtown La Salle", which is the two-word variant, though the pages on the website do use both. BhamBoi (talk) 05:08, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

To add to my comment above noting that the website has changed its spelling, the archived version of the homepage says "The city of LaSalle is located in LaSalle County, Illinois" while the current version says "The city of La Salle is located in La Salle County, Illinois". Whoever changed the spelling on the website, they have no right to change the county's name, which makes me question even their reliability! Perhaps Britannica didn't want to spell the city and county differently, but I question their factcheckers as well when the county more consistently uses one word. Reywas92^Talk 05:43, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. The sources presented in the discussion make it clear that both spellings of the city name are in common use. In the absence of a compelling reason to favor either spelling, I think it's best to leave the article at its stable title. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 14:53, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.