Talk:Kevin Youkilis/Archive 1

Archive 1

Comment

• why does it say "Jewish American"???????? either put Israeli American or leave it out. you don't see me calling myself a "Catholic Canadian"

• What are you talking about? Just because someone's Jewish doesn't make them an Israeli. Israeli isn't even a religion. Perhaps just saying "He is Jewish" would be better, do you agree? --Thebends 01:44, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Extremely Biased Opinions

• This entire paragraph:

"Nicknamed "Euclis, the Greek God of Walks" in the stathead community after his prominent appearance in the book Moneyball, Youkilis doesn't have good physical tools. He has below average speed and will never be a basestealing threat. While he isn't a slugger, he has a quick swing, making consistent hard contact, hitting line drives to the opposite field. Although he has an average arm and his defense at third base is only average, he is solid enough in his position. But Youkilis has proven that he should not be underestimated. His has good instincts, and he is a student of the game. In brief time he should be able to provide a decent batting average and excellent OBP. The Red Sox remain optimistic about his future."

Everything I bolded has a POV/biased spin on Mr. Youkilis. I understand that the author of this article was trying to be fair, but what it really comes down to is that Youkilis sucks, but there's hope for him. First of all, he's a rookie, what do you expect? Secondly, please fix this article! --Thebends 01:40, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Why?

Why in the world does this guy rate an encyclopedia article? --Dodiad

All professional athletes are considered notable, whether one agrees with this or not is another story :)—Preceding unsigned comment added by USER NAME OR IP (talk • contribs) DATE AND TIME

I also removed some unsourced material from the trivia. Most of it could go as well...--Tom 15:41, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Placement

Works for me, though I expect some others will prefer the placement below the first paragraph. --Epeefleche 20:53, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Bad statistic

"In only 183 at bats, he walked 70 times." - You don't get an at-bat if you get walked. I can't find any of his A-ball stats, but either he was walked 70 times in 183 plate appearances (which are different than at-bats), or he was walked 70 times and also had 183 at-bats, which would mean 70 walks in 253 plate appearances. Does anyone know which it is? Matthearn 15:13, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

• Plate Appearances.141.154.216.66 11:31, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

interesting point. A couple of thoughts.

The last option you listed is the correct one. Must have been some fair wethear fan who posted that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Icebox04606 (talk • contribs) 23:13, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

First, baseballcube.com has all minor league stats, such as those you were looking for. I can't read it frm my bberry, but you should find it easily there. If you can, you may want to add that url to the links in the article.

Second, I appreciate your point as to the difference between ABs and PAs. At the same time, I think the reference is fine as-is.

The reason is one that I can best explain by analogy to the other side of the equation--the pitching. If a pitcher were to pitch 8 perfect innings, walk 9 batters in the next inning without retiring any, and be pulled, we would say that he walked 9 batters in 8 innings. The 8 innings (=24 ABs in this instance) provide a frame of reference, a ratio if you will, to look at when considering the number of walks. The same of course for the BB/IP ratio.

So I think that the stat as presented is not only fine, but in keeping with the presenation of other stats that look to reflect how many walks are given as compared to how many outs are recorded. Epeefleche

Technically, I think the pitcher would be said to have pitched 8-plus innings. Although the box score would show 8.0 innings, and have a note saying they pitched to 9 batters in the 9th inning. I'm sure some things would be said about the manager as well, but that would be very POV and probably violate the BLP policy too. ;) Counterfit 09:49, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Funny. But to make the analogy closer, if that were his only performance for the season, he would (technically and non-technically) be said to have pitched 8 innings for the season, and given up 9 walks. --Epeefleche 15:48, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Moneyball Citations

Would someone with a copy of moneyball handy please add page references for the section on moneyball. I don't have mine handy. // Tecmobowl 05:35, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Statements about Youkilis and his religion

It is perfectly acceptable to include the statement about Youkilis and Yom Kippur. In fact, i'm looking for a ref. right now as I don't know that many people are familiar with the situation (I am, but this isn't about me). When i find one that doesn't require registration, i will finish the edit. Leave mel gibson out, it doesn't have a darn thing to do with this article. //Tecmobowl 19:23, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

It was referenced. It was included because Denis Leary, like many people at that time, thought Youkilis was Greek because of his nickname. Once corrected, he started riffing on Youkilis' Jewishness vis a vis Mel Gibson. The existing reference for Yom Kippur didn't need registration. IrishGuy ^talk 19:32, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't see how Denis Leary is representative of a community as a whole. Furthermore, being Jewish and being Greek are not mutually exclusive events. Technicalities aside, why is that important? And furthermore, why is the discussion relative to Mel Gibson important. I myself am very familiar with Youkilis and his decision to sit out Yum Kippur (as I am Jewish and pay particular attention to that). That aside, it is now well referenced in the article as it is a notable event in his baseball career. //Tecmobowl 20:02, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Being Greek and being Jewish aren't mutually exclusive...and no one said they were. The fact is he isn't Greek but many thought, and still think, that he is due to the nickname given him. That entry was about that same confusion. Even a celebrity Sox fan assumed he was Greek. IrishGuy ^talk 20:06, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

So if your point is that he is not greek, we should simply affirm what he is. There should be some note of his ancestory. I would suggest something in the introductory statement that asserts what he is. Let's not try and prove a misconception, rather, lets affirm the reality. //Tecmobowl 20:09, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

The boston herald source is ok, even though it is archived and therefore unaccessable by most people (including me). A lot of newspapers are just unaccessable and we have to deal. The source has to be reliable, not reliable and accessible to all. But get rid of the blog please. Are you kidding? Miss Mondegreen talk  20:19, June 10 2007 (UTC)

• I didn't like it either, but I am having a very hard time getting anyone to focus on the topics at hand and due to all the "uprise" centered around me, I'll leave it to others to assert their opinion :-) //Tecmobowl 20:22, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
• Finally! A source not generated from wikipedia or a wiki site: here. I will include this shortly. //Tecmobowl 20:28, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

• what was wrong with the herald? Miss Mondegreen talk  20:53, June 10 2007 (UTC)
• Good question, in regards to the Romanian ancestory? If so, probably nothing, other than I did not read it when looking for the source :-) //Tecmobowl 20:55, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

• I assumed you'd read it before--I didn't see that it was a recently added section until just now. I couldn't access it. I was taken to a summary and given a link that should have directed me to an archived copy of it but the link didn't work. Can someone find an archived copy of it? I couldn't... Miss Mondegreen talk  08:49, June 11 2007 (UTC)
• Jon Stewart, with Leary as guest last night, said that's he's now being called "Jew-kilis." NjtoTX 21:04, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

• I think it's even more important to include the quote attributed to Francona about the "Greek God of Walks": "I've seen him in the shower...he's not the Greek God of anything..."--71.62.148.132 (talk) 04:22, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Removal of the "odd fact"

First and foremost, the whole thing is WP:TRIVIA. Two, the sourced site does not clearly assert that it had anything to do with Youkilis' racial or religious background. It appears to be nothing more than a typo. Lastly, the source for the citation was a blog and not considered a reliable source. Hope that helps clear it up. //Tecmobowl 12:28, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure whether I think it should be in or out, but can you clarify your first sentence? I went to the url. It says, inter alia: "Lists of miscellaneous information can be useful for developing a new article .... Guidance .... Don't simply remove such sections; it may be possible to integrate some items into the article in a more organized fashion. Some facts may belong in existing sections; others can be grouped into a new section of related material. Convert bullet points to prose where possible, although in certain cases a narrowly-focused list may be appropriate .... It may be necessary to perform research to give each fact some context, or to add references where appropriate."--Epeefleche 20:21, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

• Tecmo Banned Indefinitely. FYI--Tecmo has been banned indefinitely for repeated violations of Wiki policy.--Epeefleche 01:30, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Kindergarten?

"Although his family name is derived from the Greek culture"

Which child came up with this sentence?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.166.65.126 (talk) 03:50, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Major Edits 21 May 2009

I ran a comb through this article today and made a few alterations, particularly to the introduction but also in a number of other sections. Cleaned up some repeats, moved some sentences to better spots, redid the sectioning. I reduced the number of references to his Jewishness, especially the prominence given to it in the introduction - I do not see any disrespect or any other negative connotation in this, as the major section concerning his achievements as a Jewish player, as well as the reference in the first section under Background, is intact. Darcyj (talk) 12:02, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Kevin Youkilis/GA3. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

I'll review the GAN this time through. I won't quick-fail it since it's certainly better than before. Wizardman 16:23, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Anyway, here's what need fixing:

• Helpful comments; much appreciate. I will try to address them below and in the article.--Epeefleche (talk) 08:29, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

• To start off, the dead links in the refs go to web archives, which is fine. However, it still needs the titles, publishers, etc. in them. Those can be fixed to start. (currently refs #5, 24, and 31)

• I've addressed the first two by replacing them with a live link MLB article.

As to the last, I've deleted the entire sentence (I likely put it in in the first place), as the vote has now taken place. I thought that info more notable pre-vote, and now that time has passed I think we can delete the entire sentence. I also amplified the discussion of his third place finish, with supporting citations.--Epeefleche (talk) 08:29, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

• The college section is very underdone. How long was he in college? Given the school record and all-american bids, I Know this can be expanded into a 2-paragraph piece. If there's anything on a quote about Boston's selection of Youkilis in the 8th round too, that would be a nice addition (granted, since it's a late pick i doubt it'll exist)

• Done. Great instinct on your part -- the article is far, far better (I think) with the human additions from his early years. Thanks for pushing me to find them. Curiously, Baseball Cube doesn't reflect more than one of his college years.--Epeefleche (talk) 08:29, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

• The lead could feel a bit longer and more summary-ish, and i'd like to see a bit of work done, but it's not too bad.

• I think you were right; again, thanks for the push. I think it is better now.--Epeefleche (talk) 04:37, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

• The first basemen's fielding record should be put in with the appropriate years, doesn't really need its own section.

• Done.--Epeefleche (talk) 08:29, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

• "After leaving Lowell, he played five games with the Augusta GreenJackets of the South Atlantic League, a Low-A Class league." Reword to imply he was promoted to Augusta, it sounds now like he just up and left a team.

• Done.--Epeefleche (talk) 08:29, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

• "In recognition of his performance on the field, the Boston Red Sox named Youkilis their 2002 Minor League Player of the Year." cite needed

• Done.--Epeefleche (talk) 08:29, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

• "He played 43 more games for Pawtucket in 2005 before being called up again permanently." I'd move this to the 04-05 section, expanding on why he was moved back down then back up.

• Done.--Epeefleche (talk) 09:36, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

• "In 2004, Youkilis appeared in 32 games for Pawtucket, hitting .258 with three home runs, and a .347 on-base percentage, before being called up to the Red Sox on May 15." cite needed

• Done.--Epeefleche (talk) 03:22, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

• "In the book, Lewis discusses then-prospect Youkilis in detail, and refers to him as "Euclis, the Greek God of Walks", a moniker that has stuck" quotes need to be cited.

• Done.--Epeefleche (talk) 03:30, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

• "On the Opening Day roster for the first time in his career," does this include minor leagues as well? This seems to imply so.

• Addressed.--Epeefleche (talk) 08:29, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

• Make sure numbers ten and under are spelled out when not used in parentheses/dates. (I think I caught them all, just double-check)

• Just to be sure we're on the same page, that's only when it's not in a series, right?--Epeefleche (talk) 08:29, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

• Right. Wizardman 03:29, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

• Thanks. I'm just checking now, and I note another Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates and numbers) exception: "Comparable quantities should be all spelled out or all figures: we may write either 5 cats and 32 dogs or five cats and thirty-two dogs, not five cats and 32 dogs." I read that as saying we can substitute homers for cats, and RBIs for dogs ... so it is fine to say that he hit "2 homers and 22 RBIs."--Epeefleche (talk) 03:36, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

• That makes sense. I'm not too picky on that stuff. Wizardman 03:58, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

• 2007 hit by pitch info needs to be cited.

  Done.--Epeefleche (talk) 05:29, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

• There's not much on his 2007 playoff performance, I imagine that'd be interesting to the reader.

• Right again, as his benching in the WS away games following his record-breaking performance in the prior round was notable. Done.--Epeefleche (talk) 01:25, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

• The career sections pretty much feel like reciting stats. I'm not going to hold this against you, as fixing this can be admittedly difficult, but if you can combine the personal life info into the career, or add in some managerial performance notes or something, it would make the article flow much better.

I'll put this on hold and give you a week to fix all this. After all this is handled I'll pass the article. If it's not touched I'll fail it. Wizardman 01:37, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

After reading through the article again, it is miles better than before. Keep the final point in mind as the article progresses, but as of now I feel comfortable passing the article as a GA. Well done! Wizardman 03:24, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Thank you, and thank you for the thoughtful guidance. How close do you think this is to FA quality, and what is the process for seeking FA status? Thanks.--Epeefleche (talk) 05:58, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

I'd say see if you can get someone to copyedit it and tweak the prose around a bit. After that, the only way to know for sure if it's FA is to just go for it. (which now it's at least near FA status) Wizardman 16:14, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

• To answer a couple questions, yes the concerns are addressed. I'm going to keep it at GA/mid (though you can change the redsox importance to whatever if you think he's deserving). I say that because we don't really have an A-class thing; Gedeon went through the milhist one hence why he has it. Besides, the GA to FA gap is small enough. I'll keep it at mid-imp for now because I'd reserve high importance for hall of famers and the like. Wizardman 14:09, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Aug 2009 Brawl

Undid revision to earlier version that more accurately represented the reference that was cited.On Thermonuclear War (talk) 19:07, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

• I think it finally resolved itself, reflecting the sources.--Epeefleche (talk) 08:38, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Beaned vs. Yankees

After reading through this article, and then Scott Proctor's, two different stories are told regarding June 1, 2007 (I believe). The Youkilis article says Proctor beaned him in the head, while the Proctor article says he was hit in the shoulder. Is there a way to verify where he was actually hit? Kjscotte34 (talk) 18:05, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Sara and Alvin Youkilis

This question is about Kevin Youkilis famlly background. I am a native of Hamilton, Ohio, a city of about 60,000 located about 30 miles north of Cincinnati. In my youth a friend, Sara Mostow, married Alvin Youkilis of Cincinnati. Sara, a lovely woman, died young of a terrible disease, however, I believe that she and Alvin had a son. I have lost track of him and his and Sara's children. Is it possible that Kevin Youkilis is the grandson of this couple?

Don Leshner dleshner@cinci.rr.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by USER NAME OR IP (talk • contribs) DATE AND TIME

Leary video

Why is the Denis Leary video repeatedly removed? I understand that blogs aren't considred official sources, but this contains the video that NESN has pulled off of youtube and is not available anywhere else. in this case, it's a noteworthy occuracne not available through major media and should be re-added.—Preceding unsigned comment added by USER NAME OR IP (talk • contribs) DATE AND TIME

I agree. The blog is not listing information stated as fact - it's simply a party to a major media clip. If the video itself is refenced, the video should be made available.—Preceding unsigned comment added by USER NAME OR IP (talk • contribs) DATE AND TIME

Fact

The term "Lithuanian Romanian Jew" doesn't make sense. Did the person who put this mean Lithuanian Jew and Romanian Jew, Lithuanian-Romanian Jew, or Lituhanian and Romanian Jew. If anyone wants to make the correction please do ---- RG415WBFA—Preceding unsigned comment added by USER NAME OR IP (talk • contribs) DATE AND TIME

Archive

Unless people object, I'll set this up for automate archiving of all pages after 21 days of inactivity.--Epeefleche (talk) 09:11, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

We have plenty of space on this talk page. There is no hurry to move threads to the archive. With a frequent archiving some users may get the impression of an discussion censorship. Allowing a longer time to elapse before archiving threads and keeping more threads on the talk page allow occasional visitors to the talk page the opportunity to respond to threads. --Kslotte (talk) 21:05, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Nobody objected, so I followed through -- there is no harm done by the archiving. Occasional visitors can see any current conversations that have not stopped prior to three weeks before easily, and with one click can see older conversations.--Epeefleche (talk) 08:32, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Current situation one click is needed, but without current effective archiving non click is needed. I suggested 365 days as archive time, but was reverted by Epeefleche.

Yes -- the long-standing time, discussed on this talk page and accepted with consensus months ago, is 21 days.--Epeefleche (talk) 18:52, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 108.1.139.30, 4 June 2011

The Family section is out-of-date. Youkilis and Sambataro separated last August and she is no longer CEO of Hits for Kids. See e.g.http://www.playerwives.com/mlb/boston-red-sox/kevin-youkiliss-wife-enza-sambataro-youkilis/ Also, the marriage ceremony was apparently just a ceremony, not an official marriage. 108.1.139.30 (talk) 15:34, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.- Happysailor ^(Talk) 09:38, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 11 December 2012

On December 11th, 2012 Youkilis signed a 1-year/12MM contract with the New York Yankees. Slider 466 (talk) 23:20, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:26, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Family history

For the record, the family history information is highly suspicious. "Youkilis" is not a Greek surname, or, at the very least, I can find no evidence that any Greek people named "Youkilis" have ever existed. This appears to simply be a slightly unusual-sounding Ashkenazi Jewish surname. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 13:39, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

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Is this still a GA?

This article was promoted almost seven years ago, and I see lots of problems of poor language and unsourced statements in the article. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:16, 1 May 2016 (UTC)