Talk:Karo Parisyan

Fight Record

Jayson, I am changing the records because his record is 25-4. If u want some proof why dont u ask Karo? Did u watch Karo on channel two. He saids his record is 25-4. check UFC side too http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=search.results&ss=karo --- Ruben.

66.75.246.23 keeps changing the fight record without any proof. Sherdog's fight database lists him at 15-3-0 and that is what I will revert it to unless someone provides proof otherwise. --Jayson Virissimo 03:45, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I think it is best to use the fight finder as a proof of record. Although fight finder does exclude a ton of matches, you have to have some sort of documentation to prove a fighters record.

UFC's official website (http://www.ufc.com) lists Karo's overall MMA record as 23-3-0 (W-L-D). But they haven't updated since the Sanchez fight, so it should be 23-4-0. --Hiline 16:45, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

His record was not updated since 17 wins and UFC 59 was his 23rd win as mentioned before. Now it totals 25. I have updated it but I do not know if the amount of sumbmissions/KOs are correct. If someone gets a chance please check on that. Cyrus777 16:57, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Stp[ screwing around with his record and constantly reverting it to 17 even though right on the UFC screen it said his record is 25 and since you keep reverting it he will soon enough have more like 37 wins, not 17. Stop messing around just because you don't like that fighter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.107.206.130 (talk • contribs)

Stop assuming bad faith. No one is screwing around with his record, and Karo happens to be my favorite fighter. We've been over this repeatedly on a variety of fighter's pages, and the consensus is that we use Sherdog's Fight Finder to determine fighter records. The UFC is not a completely reliable source for fighter records for many reasons. In particular, the UFC has been known on many occasions to embellish or overstate fighters' records by padding them with unverified fights or including amateur fights; or, in the case of Royce Gracie, simply ignore whatever professional fights they don't want to talk about.

Karo is one example; the UFC lists him as having 25 wins, Sherdog says 17. Sherdog has (in the Fight Finder) a detailed breakdown of all of Karo's professional fights. The total is 17 wins, 4 losses, and Sherdog breaks down all the particulars of each fight (e.g. when/where/how/why/who). UFC.com lists him with 25 wins, but there's no documentation of where those extra 8 wins came from. If you can find a verified source anywhere near as reliable as Sherdog that shows detailed results of those extra five fights, by all means, change Karo's record and cite it as a reference. Barring that, the article will follow the Wikiproject MMA consensus and use the Sherdog record as his official, encyclopedic record, and continue listing him at 17 wins.

Until Karo smashes someone's face and takes his welterweight title, at which point we'll up him to 18. Tuckdogg 01:16, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

i have never heard of Sherdog being more reliable than UFC, but fine let the readers judge for themselves —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.172.228.206 (talk • contribs)

We can't go through and change every fighter's page and deem their record "disputed," which is essentially what you're requesting we do. There's no great dispute over their records, especially in this context. The consensus on Wikipedia (specifically in WikiProject Mixed Martial Arts, which is where this stuff gets hammered out) is to use their Sherdog record. Again, this is in no small part because Sherdog doesn't just list off a few numbers and call it a record. They include a comprehensive breakdown of each fight, where it happened, the outcome, etc. so you can verify where their numbers are coming from. For the purposes of an encyclopedia (which is what this is), that's the most reliable source possible in almost all cases. So, please stop ignoring the work done by WikiProject Mixed martial arts and altering Karo's record unless you have another source that breaks down the where/when/how/why/who of those alleged 8 fights. Tuckdogg 12:09, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I know all the records cite an early opponent's name a "Guido Jennings", but it's actually "Guido Jenniges"; I know him, and he's a realtor in Southern California.

Editing his record...

Whoever decided to give away the winner for his fight vs Sanchez, please don't do it again. I came to see when his next fight was and you SPOILED it for me.

Thank you

This is an encyclopedia. If you don't want spoilers, don't read it until after the fight. Jgw 23:49, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm tired of you guys complaining like little girls. user: awesome pecs

How can he have lost a "close decision" against Sanchez if the decision was unanimous? Even if all the judges had it at, say, 28-29, it still wouldn't matter. ---philosopher2king 1/4/08 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.105.163.162 (talk) 22:55, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

That is a close decision genius. If it was a split decision, then it would be called a split decision. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Linkamous (talk • contribs) 11:29, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Problems with this article

This article is largely copied from http://www.karo-parisyan.com/about_karo_parisyan.html As such, I have added a copyvio template. Also, the fighter's record continues to be disputed, I changed it to 25-4-0 as referenced with inline citations. Iepeulas (talk) 00:39, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Do not change his record unless you can provide a citation that proves when/where the fights happened. As stated above, on repeated fighters' pages, on WT:MMA, etc, UFC.com is not a reliable source for fighter records. They repeatedly embellish records with amateur fights, fights from The Ultimate Fighter (which are exhibitions, not professional fights), and other undocumented and unverifiable fights. The fact that Karo may state that as his record as well does not prove verifiability, as there is no mention of where the extra seven fights occurred.

Both Sherdog.com and Full Contact Fighter have his record properly verified at 18-5 with a complete listing of every single professional fight he's ever been in. Unless you have a citation to a more complete database that shows the results and pertinent info of seven additional fights, then stop changing his record. Gromlakh (talk) 02:39, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Alright, here's the deal. There were no inline citations for the record, and I noticed that it conflicted with the record published by the UFC. I chagned it and cited it as such. After I changed it I noticed that there is some controversy on the issue. As the consensus seems to be that www.UFC.TV is unreliable, I agree other sources should be used. However, please provide both citions with the record so others will review the sources before changing the record, reducing the nuber of good faith, but poorly sourced edits. Thanks. Iepeulas (talk) 18:09, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

I'd love to provide a direct link to his record in FCF, but I don't think it's possible the way their database is set up. If someone could manage to find a specific URL that leads straight to his entry, please add it in. I don't think that's going to stop the problem, though. Too many people just don't bother to read before they edit, so I suspect that will continue for some time. Gromlakh (talk) 19:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Possible copyvio

I believe there is, in fact, a copyright vio here. Problem is, I believe it's KARO (or, more accurately, his webmaster) who's violating WIKIPEDIA's copyright. If you look at the "about Karo" page, it looks very much like a Wikipedia entry for a fighter. Quite frankly, it looks almost nothing like anything I've ever seen on a fighter's own page describing himself. Fighters' bio pages are not written as neutrally as Wikipedia articles are. Furthermore, that's a pretty standard Wikipedia record table on the page, including finishes oddly (and incorrectly) capitalized the same way Karo's wiki page is listed.

Karo's page also contains the mystery 2000 Sean Sherk "third loss in a row" fight that we argued over a bit back in November of last year. That fight has never been confirmed to have happened, Karo has never personally referenced it, the UFC does not include it in their record for Karo, FCF and Sherdog do not list it, and it was ultimately removed from the article as a hoax. Furthermore, his record on the page is inconsistent. In one place, it's listed as 17-4, in another it's 25-4, then right under that it's 18-2. Counting matches from the table, it would properly be 18-4. That's the type of mistake that would not be expected on a fighter's own page, but is perfectly consistent with a Wikipedia page in flux right after a major fight.

I have been unable to find an exact diff that matches that page, but it appears as though Karo's bio page was ripped from Wikipedia somewhere around November 2007, probably shortly after the Ryo Chonan fight. Either that or the body of the text was ripped before that, then the record table was ripped/updated afterwards. My guess is that the body was ripped in October or November of 2007, as the body text matches this diff and several others from that time period (excluding vandalism edits) verbatim. The record table was probably ripped from here on or about November 22, 2007. A review of the history from that time period explains why the record was listed in the table as 18-2, as an anon IP went through Karo's record and changed several "losses" to "wins." Afterwards, Nurikane manually changed back each of the vandalized fights, but because he did not "revert" or "undo" them he missed that the vandal had also altered Karo's win/loss record above the table. East718 caught it and corrected Karo's win/loss record later that day.

A review of the edit history shows the text on this page was developed gradually over time as a result of hundreds, if not thousands, of edits by several different authors. The likelihood that this was ripped wholesale from Karo's page is virtually zero. Karo's "about me" page, on the other hand, bears every hallmark of having been copied directly from Wikipedia, including several obvious factual errors that resulted from vandalism on Wikipedia. This page is not the copyvio; Karo's is. Gromlakh (talk) 03:13, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Except, of course that if his page is copied from here, it isn't a copyvio, because our article is GFDL Mayalld (talk) 13:28, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

It is a copyvio on their part since they don't credit Wikipedia. And doing so would have prevented this from happening. -SpuriousQ (talk) 13:46, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Restored for Review, of copyvio status. I beleive there is a good probability that I was mistaken in my deletion, in part because I only reviewed the last 250 edits, and missed some of the progression to current version. Jeepday (talk) 13:30, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

A WHOIS search at godaddy [1] shows that http://www.karo-parisyan.com was Created on..............: 2007-03-01 07:07:56 GMT, prior to that we had this version of the article which very simular to the current version. Jeepday (talk) 13:42, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

(Edit conf) You can pretty much tell IMMEDIATELY upon viewing the external page that it was ripped from Wikipedia. It's completely wikified, right down to links to Wikipedia for years and dates. The fight record table is the same formatting we use for articles on other MMA competitors. Gromlakh's investigation of the article history provides even more proof. I move that we remove the copyvio notice and request karo-parisyan.com to comply with the GFDL. -SpuriousQ (talk) 13:45, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

There is every indication that our article predated and was the source for the web page karo-parisyan.com. There are a number of sources that contain similar content that predate even the first wikipedia article, an example is http://www.littlearmenia.com/html/spotlight/karo-parisyan/default.asp which contains the quote "Parisyan now boasts an 18-2 MMA record. But with six Junior National belts to his credit, Karo’s true love has remained Judo. "I still compete in judo all the time. I’m in the Olympic trials for 2004."" which is probably the source for the for the wikipedia verson quote of "At nine years Parisyan commenced judo lessons with fellow Armenian Gokor Chivichyan. "I was a rough kid. I used to beat up on my sisters. ‘My father said your sisters don’t have your strength. I’ll take you somewhere where you can take your anger out on other people.’ So that was pretty much how I got into martial arts," says Parisyan." which is a copy and paste issue. Jeepday (talk) 14:06, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm fixing that now. Gromlakh (talk) 14:17, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Completed second review for copy vio- The current Wikipedia page is the work of multiple editors over time as suggested by User:Gromlakh. The site karo-parisyan.com appears to be a wiki mirror that occasionally comes here for info to update their page. While some of the text in this article is very similar to references that predate it like the /www.littlearmenia.com article which was written prior to 2004, the text has been rewritten for wikipedia. Room to improve always remains, which is what Wikipedia is all about, but I don't see any clear copyvio and have removed the tag. Jeepday (talk) 14:22, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

First to bring his judo style to UFC and make it work?

The article says that he is considered the first to bring his style of judo to the UFC and make it work. Of course! If it is his particular style, of course he will be the first to bring it to the UFC. I request that this be deleted, or changed to show that he is the real judo practitioner in the UFC to make judo work in the dynamic way that he does. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.168.179.155 (talk) 23:43, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

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