Talk:Karl Renner

Facts about the founding of the II. Republic of Austria

An anonymus IP (87.112.10.251) tries since some days to state absolutely wrong information about Karl Renner and the founding of the II. Republic of Austria:

1) First Mr. Anonymus tried to state, that Karl Renner started to set up a new government from western Austria, which was quite impossible as Renner survived the NS-Regime in Gloggnitz near to the Semmering and then he moved back to Vienna.

2) Also Mr. Anonymus tries to revert Austrian history by saying that Renner was out of the reach of the red army. Quite the contrary is true: It was the Red Army who SEARCHED for him in Gloggnitz and immediatly brought him to Vienna, as - furtunately for Austria - Stalin was personaly impressed by Renner whom he allready knew as one of the founder of the I. Republic of Austria in 1918/1919 (even when Stalin knew the border between Socialdemocrats like Renner and Communists, and - funny enough - the Austrian Communist Party KPÖ was AGAINST the reactivation of Renner). But allready in 1943 after the Moscow Declaration it was obvious, that the Soviets - like the other allies - had special plans for Austria and therefore kindly ignored most of the responsibility of Austrians between 1938 and 1945, especially with a quite friendly interpretation of the occurences during the Anschluss in 1938.

3) So let us come to the facts (and I am quite far away from supporting Communists or Soviet point of views, but I am quite serious about Austrian history and one has to be fair):

• After the Vienna Offensive, the red army had finally liberated Vienna from the Nazis on the 13th April 1945 (also with some support of Austrian members of the Wehrmacht like Major Carl Szokoll who had started the Operation Radetzky to hand over Vienna to the Soviets in a gentle way without to many deaths. The occurences in Budapest where a reason, why they did so. So they told the Soviets, where and how they should enter the city. Their plan - more or less - worked, but some of them like Biedermann, Huth and Raschke where exposed and hanged by the Nazi-Army which was allready on their pullback to North during the last days of the Vienna Offensive ).
• Afterwards the Soviets advanced till Semmering so they also reached Gloggnitz.
• Allready on the 4th April 1945, Renner had met the Soviet command in their base in Hochwolkersdorf, not far away from the Semmering.
• After the Soviets had finally liberated Vienna on the 13th April 1945, things moved forward quite quickly: Between the 14th and the 17th April, the former Austrian parties reestablished themself in Vienna (First the Social-Democrats SPÖ, the party of Karl Renner, on the 14th April). Renner arrived in Vienna on the 21st April 1945 and immediatly formed - with the approval of the Soviets who had military controll over eastern Austria - a provisorial government within one week. The government was formed from three parties: SPÖ (Social-Democrats); ÖVP (Conservatives) and KPÖ (Communists). On the 27th April 1945, the provisional government proclaimed the Indipency of Austria ("Proklamation über die Selbständigkeit Österreichs vom 27. April 1945", Staatsgesetzblatt Nr. 1/1945). The proclamation was signed by Karl Renner and the leaders of the three parties SPÖ, ÖVP and KPÖ. All this happened in Vienna and under the kindly approval of the Soviets (which was more a tactical question for the Soviets, as they had quite special plans for Austria which leaded to the Austrian State Treaty and the Declaration of Neutrality in 1955).
• While all this happened in Vienna in April 1945, most of Austria was still occupied by the Nazis, as the Western allies troups had only reached Tyrol. After the end of war (on the 8th May 1945) the western allies where quite reserved toward the new Austrian government as they allready knew, that Stalin himself had authorised Renner. But during 1945, one after one of them finally accepted the new government as they realised, that Renner was just a quite clever diplomat and not a special friend of Stalin ;-)

These are the facts about April 1945 in Austra. So, Mr. Anonymus, can you see that Renner was not in "Western Austria ... acting beyond the reach of the Red Army"? Can you therefore see, that your edits and reverts about this part of Austrian history where (and still are) simply wrong? -- Rfortner 12:55, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 04:13, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Noric Republic

It wasn't Renner who suggested the novel name "Norische Republik", or Noric Republic, for an altogether new state, a reference to the ancient Celtic "regnum Noricum", a kingdom that covered almost the same area as the new state and was later incorporated as a province in the Roman Empire." As this suggestion] was aired by Heinrich Lammasch, who had been Imperial Austria's last PM and was a legal consultant to Renner's delegation in Saint Germain, I removed the passage.--Marschner (talk) 17:42, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Box

In the box, the part "Deputy : Leopold Figl / Johann Koplenig / Adolf Schärf" is about the 1945 cabinet, not about his first cabinet.--Bancki (talk) 18:49, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

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Thinly veiled political advocacy

The section on antisemitism clearly contains the implicit suggestion that Renner has no business being honored in any way by a ‘respectable’ modern European state:

“Even today in a united Europe and after a precise scientific analysis of Nazi crimes, there are still countless "Dr. Karl Renner Streets" in Austria. Even today, the state awards a Karl Renner Prize.”

This section of text specifically is the problem. I would say it clearly, even if only implicitly, tells the reader that Austria is wrong to continue to make these public references to him. My understanding is that wikipedia articles are supposed to inform rather than advocate. So this section could use a rewrite. I’d suggest moving it to a new section on ‘legacy’ or ‘list of things named after him’ and just presenting as facts the facts that these things are named for him. This would allow the reader who believes he should be expunged from public reference to realize that they have something to be concerned with, without presenting that view as the view of the encyclopedia.

Earlier sections also seem written with an intent to lead the reader to the conclusion that he personally bears responsibility for the Holocaust, but without explicitly saying so. I refer specifically to this section:

“Renner offered serve to the Nazi during the occupation, but was declined. During the occupation, according to official Austrian figures, 51,500 Austrian Jews of a total of 200,000 died in concentration camps, which, as documented during the Nuremberg war-crimes trials, had a disproportionately large number of Austrian guards.”

Is he a political leader who encouraged Austrians to turn over Austrian Jews to the concentration camps, or not? If he is, then the article should come straight out and say so, with evidence. If not, this section should be rewritten to clarify the point of mentioning these facts. I don’t know that deleting it entirely is appropriate in that case - the section before says that he supported annexation by germany, and readers may want to know the consequences this had.

I am not from Austria, nor am I a Jew, so I am not familiar with any controversy around this man. But my gut tells me this could be a contentious issue that I don’t have the time and energy to handle. So I’ll leave these suggestions here in the hopes that they’ll be useful to a more committed editor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8802:5700:E2E:253F:696D:337F:C1DA (talk) 20:03, 23 August 2020 (UTC)