Talk:Javelin (disambiguation)

Ancient weapon

There really needs to be an article on the javelin as an actual ancient thrown weapon, not just a sporting event. . . . (Maybe I'll find time to write it.) ---Michael K. Smith 16:40, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

This article seriously needs attention, it's getting vandalized alot. User:superknijn

Contested move request

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

• Javelin (disambiguation) → Javelin — I think Javelin should be the title for the disambiguation page, not redirect to Javelin (weapon). Just my opinion but, if this request were to be contested, at least move Javelin (weapon) to Javelin for consistency. ~I'm anonymous

• It is unclear to me whether the secondary meaning (the Olympic discipline of the javelin) is called "javelin" often enough to warrant the disambiguation page being at javelin, or rarely enough, that javelin (weapon) should be moved there. I think this one needs to be opened up to the wider community. --Stemonitis 08:04, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move - 8 May 2007

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was rename

This stems from the proposal made above. Javelin currently redirects to Javelin (weapon), while other meanings are discussed at Javelin (disambiguation). One of these articles needs to move, and I'm not sure which. The question is, what do most people expect to see at javelin? Is it the ancient weapon (javelin (weapon), which does not include the modern sporting javelin)? Is it the sporting discpiline (javelin throw)? Is it something else? Share your thoughts, please. --Stemonitis 19:37, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

See, this is exactly why Javelin should be the name for the disambiguation page. Hence, I still support the move from Javelin (disambiguation) to Javelin. ~I'm anonymous

• Support making Javelin the disambiguation page. Neier 00:18, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

This article has been renamed from Javelin (disambiguation) to javelin as the result of a move request. --Stemonitis 06:41, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

• • I'm new here so I'm not sure of what is the proper protocol for changing stuff (I've already changed the disambig page before I saw this discussion. Nevertheless I'm now at my graduate studies in history and Javelin is foremost a weapon, like sword, lance, dagger and so on. I do thing the above mention remarks are correct and the javelin throw should be at least partly incorporated into javelin (weapon), since they have close historical ties. I'm sorry for my unintentional impoliteness for changing the page before entering the discussion (I'll learn better next time). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.108.92.137 (talk) 20:41, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

I reverted both of your edits because they were before any discussion. Wikipedia encourages people to make bold edits, but these changes were already discussed before and your edits were contrary to what was decided. You are welcome to bring up the topic again, as you have, but changes like that should only take place after it is obvious that a concensus has formed to support them. Wikipedia is an odd place in many ways, where concensus doesn't mean "majority vote" and such, and while I agree that Javelin is first a weapon, the reasoning for it being a disambig page is that the majority of people looking up "javelin" aren't looking for the weapon. The goal in this case is convenience. If they search for "javelin weapon" it will auto take them to the right page anyway. For my 2c, I always recommend people start making small edits on article topics they know and like, reading the policies, and within a time you become more comfortable with what you can do, what you shouldn't do, and requires discussion first. Even then, it can get rowdy, so never take it personal. I would strongly recommend you go ahead and signup for a real name on Wikipedia. Like it or not, people take names much more serious than IP numbers. This is because most of the vandalism/problems come from just IPs rather than registered users. It isn't required, but helpful. Pharmboy (talk) 20:53, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Reconsidering this page

• Javelin (weapon) → Javelin and Javelin → Javelin (disambiguation) Request edited to reflect intended request. — AjaxSmack 05:14, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

I think we should reconsider using Javelin as a disambiguation page. The original meaning of javelin is the weapon. All other meanings are derivative of its original meaning. If you check the dictionary it gives you the weapon as the first definition (try M-W for example). But most important to wiki users is the consistency of the terms in each subject. Every general weapon's name has a disambiguation page, but it always secondary for the weapon page, e.g. lance, sword, dagger, shield, armour, helmed etc. with pike the only exception, I don't know why. Therefore I think Javelin should be the weapon page and have a reference to the disambig page like the above mentioned examples. Nik Sage ^{(talk/contrib)} 03:51, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

• Comment I think you need to rewrite your request, Javelin → Javelin (weapon) doesn't make sense, since Javelin is already a dab page, and moving it to weapon makes no sense. 70.55.85.140 (talk) 08:06, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

• Comment it's a piece of sports equipment used in an Olympic sport. That is the most commonly encountered usage in English in the public mind. 70.55.85.140 (talk) 08:06, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

• I've reshuffled the structure of the disambig to make it clearer (and removed some of the cruft). That possibly clears things up a bit. Megapixie (talk) 09:06, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

• CommentI meant to put the javelin (weapon) as the page people will receive when entering javelin. From that page there will be a reference to a disambig page, the as in sword, lance, spear, shield and armour. Considering the second remark all the English dictionaries I've checked put the weapon as the first meaning. There could be a section on the weapon article considering javelin throw and its relation to ancient Greek warfare. Besides it's the same for spear which is a weapon but most people today think it is a fishing equipment and the common use of armour is relating to a protective outer layer of a vehicle or a ship ^{(talk/contrib)} 03:26, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

• Disagree: Whilst it might be likely that many people are interested in the thrown weapon meaning there are far too many other meanings which are in common and constant use. The use of the disambig page as the initial target (as per discussion above about its move) makes more sense therefore. Editors are easily able to opint their links at the correct target and readers are the ones we are helping here by having the disambig page. --AlisonW (talk) 08:45, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

• Support. The only other item on the list at javelin solely called "javelin" is the javelin (rocket) which is a three-sentence stub. All others are qualified (and, as with the rocket, are derivative). — AjaxSmack 05:16, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

• Comment concerning AlisonW disagreement. Wikipedia is more about convention then common or constant use. The ancient weapon convention is to make them the main page and all other meanings in the disambig page (as I explained and demonstrated in my previous comments). Furthermore I've googled all of the terms in the disambig page and compared it to two searches that are quite restrictive to javelin (1. javelin & ancient & medieval 2. javelin & spear). Javelin as a pre-modern ranged weapon gave about a million results in both searches. All the other meanings gave much less besides Javelin software which gave 700,000 results. So even if look at common and constant use it is evident that the weapon is the principal meaning and all other meanings are derivatives (like the MGM-52 Lance or Lance Armstrong in the Lance disambig page). ^{(talk/contrib)} Nik Sage (talk) 08:00, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

• Support as obviously the usual meaning of the word "javelin". Srnec (talk) 04:52, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

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Statistics about the javelin please? What's the maxium range? Average weight? Stuff like that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.121.21.29 (talk) 01:32, 17 July 2008 (UTC)