Talk:Invasion of Kagera

Cooper ?

Cooper & Fontanellaz 2015 is referred to without being listed in the references.--Le Petit Chat (talk) 08:48, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

@Le Petit Chat: fixed. Applodion (talk) 11:49, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Invasion of Kagera/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: CPA-5 (talk · contribs) 20:18, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

I'll review this last non-GA-class article about the Uganda–Tanzania War in the near future. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 20:18, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

• In October 1978 Uganda invaded the Kagera Salient in northern Tanzania Unlink current countries.
• Idi Amin is overlinked.
  • Fixed.
• The Tanzanians organised a counterattack later American counterattack.
  • Fixed all counter-attacks.
• the Kagera Salient—a 720 square mile stretch No metric units?
  • Conversion displayed.
• and the Kagera River 18 miles to the south Same as above.
  • Conversion displayed.
• the Tanzania People's Defence Force (TPDF) to prepare a counterattack American counterattack. I'll continue later on. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 19:51, 28 August 2019 (UTC)

More to come

• a military coup that overthrew the President of Uganda Link President of Uganda here instead of linking only Uganda.
  • Done.
• deterioration of relations with neighbouring Tanzania Unlink Tanzania here.
  • Done.
• agreed to mediation overseen by the President of Somalia Link President of Somalia.
  • Done.
• in the signing of the Mogadishu Agreement Link the Mogadishu Agreement.
  • Done.
• withdraw to positions at least 10 kilometres away No English units?
• What were Uganda's primary units? English or already metric units?
  • Seems they were already using metric at the time [1].
• a 720 square mile stretch of land between the official border and the Kagera River 18 miles No metric units?
  • Conversion displayed.
• which were further exacerbated by a United States boycott Unlink the US because of common term.
  • Done.
• Amin and soldiers loyal to the Vice-President of Uganda Link the Vice-President of Uganda. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 13:56, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Done.

More to come

• Tanzania had tense relations with Zaire, Kenya, and Malawi, and the only forces defending Unlink Malawi.
  • Done.
• Is there a link for Radio Uganda?
  • No.
• 32 kilometres south of the border and just south No English units?
  • Conversion displayed.
• observation posts reported Ugandan maneuvers on the other side of the border American maneuvers.
  • Anglicanised.
• It was equipped with 122 mm mortars No English units?
  • Added.
• a 120 mm howitzer, and a few 85 mm guns No English units for the 85 mm guns?
  • Added.
• though one landed 50 metres from the hospital No English units?
  • Done.
• approximately 3,000 Ugandan troops[23][15] Re-order the ref here.
  • Done.
• destroying the 75 metre centre section of the bridge --> "destroying the 75-metre centre section of the bridge" and no English units?
  • Done.
• Ugandan aggression: Mengistu Haile Mariam of Ethiopia, Didier Ratsiraka of Madagascar, Agostinho Neto of Angola, Seretse Khama of Botswana, Samora Machel of Mozambique, and Kenneth Kaunda of Zambia Unlink all the current countries except for Madagascar which has to be piped to the Democratic Republic of Madagascar.
  • Done.
• a coalition of countries committed to ending Apartheid in South Africa Unlink South Africa.
  • Done.
• The governments of Guinea, Mali, Senegal, and several other African states Unlink the current countries.
  • Done.
• The Ugandan government offered to accept mediation from Libya Pipe Libya to the History of Libya under Muammar Gaddafi.
  • Done.
• a 10% "temporary war tax" was raised on soft drinks Use per cent instead of the symbol.
  • Done.
• The study concluded that by 1981 75% of pre-war infrastructure MOS says "Adjacent quantities not comparable should usually be in different formats: twelve 90-minute volumes or 12 ninety-minute volumes, not 12 90-minute volumes or twelve ninety-minute volumes." We should use a different format for "75" also we should use per cent, not the symbol is only used in infoboxes and tables.
  • 75% changed to "three fourths"

I'll continue later on. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 14:06, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

Images

• File:Idi_Amin_cropped.jpg isn't there a better quality photo about Adi Amin at that time?
  • None that are indisputably public domain.

Sources

• Ref 51 hasn't an access-date.
  • Added.
• Ref 56, same as above.
  • Added
• Ref 71, no link to the website?
  • Ref 71 is a book citation.
• Some books have no location, why is that so?
  • Locations added.
• Try to standardise the hyphens in the ISBNs.
  • Hyphenated.
• Kamazima Google Books' title shouldn't have an URL to the book itself. Because Google Books doesn't give us a preview.
  • Removed.
• Kamazima other book's ISSN is dead on my screen.
  • Worldcat doesn't have it, but it's correct according to the publications' website.
• Hooper Google Books' title shouldn't have an URL to the book itself. Because Google Books doesn't give us a preview.
  • Removed.
• This is really strange. Roberts' link goes to the "Politics and Violence in Eastern Africa: The Struggles of Emerging States" book not Roberts' title?
  • That's because Roberts wrote the chapter "The Uganda–Tanzania War, the fall of Idi Amin, and the failure of African diplomacy, 1978–1979" that was published in that compilation book. I've changed the url parameter so it links the book, not the chapter.

Infobox

• Looks good to me.

That's anything from me. I'll place it on hold. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 13:57, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

• Hey Indy may I ask you "are you done with addressing my comments? Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 10:26, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

@CPA-5: Sorry for the wait, all should be addressed now. -Indy beetle (talk) 01:49, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

• I'll pass it, nice work. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 14:55, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

Identity of Lieutenant Colonel Marajani

@Applodion: Adding as a note here which may prove useful in the future. I've been looking into the identity of Lieutenant Colonel Marajani for some time, but have been unsuccessful. Avirgan and Honey are the only source that mention him, but considering the authoritative reputation of their work I'm loathe to discount what they say. I think it's possible that Marajani is actually Lieutenant Colonel Hussein Marijan, who was a serving as a minister in the Ugandan government at the time. Since it appears Avirgan and Honey know of Marajani only through Tanzanian intercepts of Ugandan radio transmissions, it's possible they mistransliterated his name. -Indy beetle (talk) 00:41, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

@Indy beetle: I had also tried to find more about him, and suspected that his name might be mistranslated. In this book, one of the Kagera commanders is even called "Lt Col Marjan", making it very likely that "Marijan" is the officer's correct surname. One problem in regards to identifying Marajani with Hussein Marijan was that many "Marijan"s appear to have worked under Amin. I have also found "Hussein Ismail Marijani", "Juma Marijan", "Halima Marijan", "Abdalatiff Bin Mohamed Marijan" and "Kamis Marijan". Furthermore, I found it odd that none of the interviwed Ugandan officers involved in the border fighting mentioned a Marajani/Marijan/Marjan - like, at all. In general, I think a note would be the best solution. Applodion (talk) 01:28, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

@Applodion: Ah yes I just discovered Uganda 30 years, 1962-1992 and its reference to "Marjan". I think Hussein Marijan and Hussein Ismail Marijani are the same person, and I was aware of Juma, but gee I didn't realise there were so many others! I think "Marjan" of Uganda 30 years, 1962-1992 is the only one we can put in a footnote, since that's the only source that connects the person with the events in Kagera. I still strongly suspect the real person is Hussein, since he definitely was a Lieutenant Colonel at the time, but we'll have to wait and hope that better sourcing comes up to confirm. -Indy beetle (talk) 02:29, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

@Indy beetle: I also think that Hussein is the most likely candidate. The other Marijan-Guys appear to have been much smaller fishes. In fact, one cannot discount the possibility that several "Marijan"s were in fact the same person - after all, most high-ranking people under Amin appear to have used at least one alternate name (or nickname). Perhaps the Ugandan newspapers will eventually publish an interview that sheds light onto the situation. As you said, we can only hope. Applodion (talk) 11:42, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

@Indy beetle: I have added a bit from Omara-Otunnu to the note, who described how Marijan served at the border in 1977. Applodion (talk) 14:25, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

A&H: "SAM-6" versus "Strella"

Applodion: I left a note on Indy beetle's talkpage. Firstly, this is amazing work and you should both be very proud of what you've done - across all the articles. Now A&H page 59 says "A six-member team armed with Soviet-built SAM-6 shoulder-fired, heat-seeking anti-aircraft missiles, commonly known as "Strella" was dispatched.." Now the SAM-6 did't exist in the Soviet arsenal - the NATO designations were SA, rather than SAM. And the SA-6 is a large tracked system. The shoulder-fired staple was the SA-7, or 9K32 Strela-2. It is listed in current service with the TPDF by IISS 2018. So A&H appear to have gotten a partially mixed-up identification, which would have been relatively easy; they weren't army officers. What I would recommend is that you two drop the "SAM-6" part of the sentence and just link the "Strella" part. Cheers and and my warmest congratulations and thanks for all your hard work.. Buckshot06 (talk) 10:59, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

Buckshot06: I corrected the mistake. In fact, Cooper & Fontanellaz actually say that the Tanzanians were equipped with SA-7 MANPADs. The two are military historians, and mostly reply on A&H for information - as they deviate from A&H in this regard, the latter were probably indeed mistaken. I have fixed the error and added the C&F page in question. Applodion (talk) 11:22, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

Well, Tom's an aircraft nut - that's a compliment - but goes well beyond the usual anorak!! Yes, if they emphasize the Strella rather than "SAM-6" part of the designation here they'd be doing the right thing!! Buckshot06 (talk) 11:26, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

@Buckshot06: Thanks for noticing the detail - Soviet military history is not my specialty. I agree with Applodion's assessment; Avirgan and Honey were journalists, while Cooper & Font do more military research, so their ID here of the weapon is preferable. Not the first time I've encountered this issue with them; they made an apparent mistake in IDing some Tanzanian tank types as well. That said though, their work is still superb and their narrative and analyses of events is praised by nearly all other scholars who explicitly mention them. -Indy beetle (talk) 21:31, 9 January 2020 (UTC)