Talk:Howley Hall

Location

I am bewildered as to why Joe Roe (talk · contribs) would argue that Howley Hall is in Batley when it is indeed in Morley. The ancient parish was much larger and included Morley but Morley did exist and that is where Howley Hall was built. Ancient parishes were very large, neighbouring Dewsbury included Ossett for example. In times past something might have been recorded as being in the historic parish but I think Wikipedia uses modern boundaries, as does Historic England :Location Leeds (Metropolitan Authority) Parish:Morley. Here are two maps showing boundaries, one modern, one older. It can quite easily be closer to Batley centre but that really doesn't change the fact that it is in Morley. He are misleading readers by continuing to argue it is in Batley. (https://mapit.mysociety.org/area/9045.html) (https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/WRY/Batley/BatleyMap)

I have tried asking on his page but although he has been active since, he has not replied. I am copying my request here. If I revert it I shall no doubt be accused of edit warring. Esemgee (talk) 06:46, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

The article currently says that it is between Batley and Morley, which is where it is, and what our main reference says. I don't see how that could be misleading to readers. – Joe (talk) 08:17, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

I think it should be more explicit along the lines of in Morley but closer to Batley town centre. I take it you have no objection to removing it from Batley as that is patently wrong. Esemgee (talk) 11:26, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

It's in Morley parish. There is no reason why we have to explicitly say that the lead any more than we have to say it's in Leeds district, Kirklees Borough, Elmfield Ward, or the former wapentake of Agbrigg and Morley. It is more informative to say that it lies between the two settlements (ancient and modern).

If you mean remove mention of Howley Hall from our article on Batley, as you already tried to do, that should really be discussed at Talk:Batley. But since it is mentioned in literally every history of Batley I know of (notably as a popular recreation ground for workers from the town in the 19th century), I can't see how that would be an improvement either. – Joe (talk) 11:37, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

I never mentioned putting it into the Leeds district, Kirklees Borough, Elmfield Ward, or the former wapentake of Agbrigg and Morley, a completely spurious argument. All that is necessary is to say it is in Morley, as stated by your reliable source and its location on the maps, not far from the centre of Batley rather than the implication that it is in Batley by putting Batley first.

As to your assertion it was popular for recreation doesn't mean that it can be claimed as part of Batley nor is it referenced. As to not improving the Batley article, which isn't in good shape, I think you are wrong. The Batley article needs a lot of work and editors really shouldn't have to ask permission to remove something in the article that is in the wrong place. As you are so invested in your own particular view you are making it impossible for neutral editors to improve the articles. Esemgee (talk) 09:01, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

I am saying that there is no reason to emphasise what parish it is in compared to any other type of administrative boundary. And that our criteria for including things in articles is not amateur geographical pedantry, it's what reliable sources say, and reliable sources about Batley often mention Howley Hall. What the source says and what the maps say is exactly what the article says now: it is "located between the towns of Batley and Morley in West Yorkshire". Putting one or the other first doesn't imply anything. – Joe (talk) 09:22, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

Nah Joe I agree with you your definition is more location accurate then putting it as Morley in a whole. Keep it between the two DragonofBatley (talk) 00:44, 27 October 2021 (UTC)