Talk:History of Aston Villa F.C. (1874–1961)

GA review comments

Hello. Thanks for the request to perform the GA, my pleasure. Here are my comments.

• First, the title, I'm an "en-dash" stickler, so it should be "...(1874–1961)..." so you should move the page.
  • Done
• There's no actual link to Aston Villa F.C. in the text!
  • Done
• Linking match to game seems pointless, you're better off linking rugby.
  • Done
• Lead feels too long for the rest of the article.
• For the FA Cup wins, in the lead, link to the FA Cup finals rather than that year in football.
• You linked First World War but not Second. Why?
  • Done
• "...were to slide into a period of turmoil." - bit POV, stick to the facts.
  • Done
• Don't like the section headings with "(year-year)" - I wouldn't put the year in at all.
  • I have removed them now. They have a long and complicated history. They were a compromise, see the archives of Aston Villa F.C. for the history.
• Indent all Main article:... by one colon.
  • They now both use the {{main}} template. Indentation is as per the template default.
• "They were looking for something to keep them occupied during the winter." - says who?
  • Says the reference at the end of the sentence after that one.
• "...teams did. So he wrote..." - is this one sentence or two? I'd avoid starting with "So...".
  • Reworded
• "The reason the Football League was never called the English League is because McGregor intended Scottish and Welsh teams were to join eventually.[10] Welsh teams (most notably Cardiff City) did so,[11] but Scottish teams did not." - this reads awkwardly, rephrase.
  • Completely agree and completely reworded.
• You may like to check but I don't think runners-up and one-sided need en-dash, just a hyphen, check out WP:DASH. At the same time, check seasons do use en-dash, I've seen one 1909-10 instead of 1909–10.
  • Yep done, i thought i had caught all of the rogue endashes during my run-through. A previous editor had erroneuously replaced all hyphens with endashes, sorted now
• Link all football seasons where you can.
  • Thought they were. They are now, upto a point. (ie once in each section)
• Citations should be placed per WP:CITE, immediately following punctuation.
• What is the meaning of "(link)"?
  • Removed done a proper link
• "...called Villa's golden age..." by whom? If citable then perhaps "...Villa's "Golden Age"..." and reference.
  • Changed it to golden Era as that is mentioned on the official club website
• "...something of a pinnacle though as Villa had poor League finishes of sixth and tenth..." - POV - since when was sixth poor? Needs neutral perspective.
  • Removed POV statement
• I think you need a See also section for your link to the next phase of Villa history. Actually, you don't need it at all, it's in the Villa template.

So I think there's some way to go. I'll fail for now, but please please let me know if I can help further. The Rambling Man 21:55, 26 October 2007 (UTC) Think that is all done now Everlast¹⁹¹⁰ 16:32, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

The external link to the English double has got to go. Pipe link it to the Double wikilink you've already got. The Rambling Man 17:02, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Further comments

• Image:Mcgregor.jpg doesn't seem to have fair use rationale for this, or the other articles it's used in.
  • I have added the rationale to the image page but it won't stretch to using it here so i have commented it out. I think it falls outside of pd-70 but i am trying to find the initial publishing date. Good catch!
    • Keep pursuing that pd-70, it's a good image... The Rambling Man 19:01, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
• Six sections seems excessive now, especially since there's only nine paragraphs in the main part of the article. Consider merging some paragraphs.
  • Personally, i think the article finally has a good structure to it. The sections reasonably split up the text and the time period and i think trying to merge paragraphs and therefore sections would be more detrimental, than helpful.
• "This included the League and Cup Double in 1896–97 a feat which would not be repeated for more than 60 years." - should be easy to cite this.
  • You would think so...
• "...an infamous 1–7 defeat..." - why infamous? Can you cite this?
  • Nope so removed the infamous.
• "...when after eight games,..." missing comma after when I think.
  • Yep
• "...a relatively successful one." hmm, relative to what? Difficult this one. I'd urge a rephrase.
  • Rephrased
• "(2 Oct 1997)" - I'd prefer "(2 October, 1997)".
  • Fixed

Nearly there. The Rambling Man 18:10, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

GA, at last!

Okay, apologies for the delay, as you may have noticed, I've been on a template rampage. Anyway, you'll be glad to know that I'm passing the article to WP:GA with immediate effect. Good work guys. The Rambling Man 17:37, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

External links modified

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• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.btinternet.com/~brentours/SP31.htm
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• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.avfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/ClubHistory/0%2C%2C10265~423103%2C00.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100508230037/http://www.birminghammail.net/news/crime-news/2010/05/06/from-the-archives-the-star-villa-player-shot-dead-by-neighbour-97319-26389654/ to http://www.birminghammail.net/news/crime-news/2010/05/06/from-the-archives-the-star-villa-player-shot-dead-by-neighbour-97319-26389654/
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.avfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/ClubHistory/0%2C%2C10265~423103%2C00.html

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External links modified

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070927203337/http://www.iea.org.uk/record.jsp?type=pressArticle&ID=217 to http://www.iea.org.uk/record.jsp?type=pressArticle&ID=217
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070929101911/http://astonvilla.blogfootball.com/theAlmanac/park to http://astonvilla.blogfootball.com/theAlmanac/park

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Proposed merge in of Aston Villa F.C. in the 1870s

Aston Villa F.C. in the 1870s needs to be checked against content here, merged if necessary, and then deleted. Mountain^cirque 08:45, 19 June 2019 (UTC)

I was bold and went ahead with it. It was entirely unreferenced and didn't have any further detail than this page. It looks like that page was created before the history articles were forked and the main content hasn't been touched since 2007 in any meaningful sense. Woody (talk) 19:22, 19 June 2019 (UTC)

Odd in-line 'reference' in the opening sentence

Please can we address the opening sentence: Aston Villa Football Club were formed in 1874, by fifteen members [Report by the Sports Argus on a talk by co-founder Jack Hughes, 1899] of the Wesleyan Chapel at Villa Cross (known as early as 1867 as Aston Villa Wesleyan Chapel) in Lozells.

The 'fifteen members' claim is not backed up by the quoted sources and many sources claim that there were four founding men. The source to the 1883 newspaper actually states [paraphrasing] "we are not sure who the founders were apart from an E.B. Lee" (one of the players in their first match in 1874) who may have still been around the club in 1883. Can anyone find a source for the 'fifteen members' claim. I have searched for Jack Hughes' talk in the Sports Argus in 1899 and not found it. If we can't find a source then we will have to go back to the 'four founders', which is the most widely reported story. Of course there were more that played the first game, potentially up to 15 as the rules of that match were one half of football and one half of rugby. Mountaincirque^talk 13:08, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Also, there is a bit an odd bit of original research along these same lines further down the article where it states Co-founder Jack Hughes insisted that Aston Villa Football Club was formed by fifteen players, mainly from the Aston Villa Wesleyan Chapel cricket team with no source. Mountaincirque^talk 13:09, 21 March 2024 (UTC)