Talk:Hermione Granger/Archive 4

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

Article Accuracy

In the US version of the film (and books) "Chamber of Secrets", she DOES know what mudblood means. It is Harry that does not. The sentence in the article that states the opposite needs correction. 199.244.214.30 (talk) 17:32, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

No, not in the books. The Wikipedia article is correct as it relates what's in the books ArthurWeasley (talk) 17:53, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

She does not know what mudblood means, she "knew" or could understand it was a derogatory name but not for what. I don't think we need to include the films awful swtiching of Ron's comments of knowledge to Hermione. chandler ··· 18:33, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Good Article

The article doesn't bear the "Good Article" icon (at the top right) and such, it's only mentioned here in the talk page. I'd do the edit myself, but I don't know how to. -- AvatarMN (talk) 02:07, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

I don' think there is a Good Article icon. I've searched though several at Wikipedia:Good_articles and haven't come across any that do. HuGo_87 (talk) 03:08, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Relationships

The relationships section is not fancruft - it's a significant aspect of the novels (at least from 5 upwards). It is one of the biggest characterisations of the character possible. Without it, the article becomes, to my mind, short and dull. Grieferhate (talk) 16:13, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

What to do

Quoting this good article reassesment, I'm going to see what we need to do to make GA. The revision then was: this. The revision when made GA-class is this.

• Comprehensiveness: The article is better than most Harry Potter bios in that it does have a section on critical analysis, but there's next to nothing on critical reception in general and the analysis section needs more opinions and expansion.

The appearances section can be cut down dramatically, increasing clarity, as can the 'attributes' section (and reworking the arrangement of the sections may help in readability as well.)

• Images: what do File:HermyLindsay.jpg and File:Hermionehand.jpg significantly add to the article as per WP:NFCC?

 Done, these were removed.

There's no major critical commentary about Lohan's portrayal or Emma Watson's early appearance.

 Doing... I'll look up early reviews on Emma Watson at her article. As for Lohan, I doubt there'll be anything. However, we could explain how she was portrayed, which differed from the real Hermione very much (see this).

• References: Spell out the books instead of using esoteric templates, and use page numbers instead of vague chapters.

This is going to take a lot of work. I'm an American and own the Scholastic editions, of which the page numbers vary. Will it count?

Working, --Glimmer721 ^talk 02:00, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 174.49.91.185, 22 February 2011

{{edit semi-protected}} You have the first Harry Potter movie name wrong. It's called the "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone". Please fix it, it makes the site look stupid

174.49.91.185 (talk) 01:23, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Not done. Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone is the correct and original title. It was changed for the United States to appeal to more readers. ICYTIGER'SBLOOD 02:42, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Actors from A Very Potter Musical

There is currently a discussion at Talk:Harry Potter (character)/Archive 4#Darren Criss about whether or not to include those who portrayed him in A Very Potter Musical. It appears there is a concerted campaign by anon editors to add the 'Very Potter' actors to Harry Potter-related articles. We need to reach a consensus on this quickly. Please discuss. Thanks. Elizium23 (talk) 20:44, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Against it - we don't list the baby who portrayed Harry when Hagrid delivered him to the Dursleys, or in any of the flashback scenes. The role of Harry is intrinsically linked to Daniel Radcliffe. (C&P from talk page.) a_man_alone (talk) 20:49, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Please keep the conversation centralized at Talk:Harry Potter (character)/Archive 4#Darren Criss because these edits are taking place across various articles in the Harry Potter project. Elizium23 (talk) 20:50, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Already done - I saw it here first though, hecne the (C&P from talk page.) - although I should have clarified I meant the Harry Potter talk page. a_man_alone (talk) 20:53, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Sorry about that - I just saw it now. Thanks :) Elizium23 (talk) 20:54, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Tales of Beedle and the Bard

Why no mention of Hermione as translator of the book, or even a mention of the book. It played such a key role in the HP series. Also in TBB there is a hint that Hermione is descended from a Wizard. Tuyvan (talk) 21:37, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

I've read TBB quite a few times now, and I haven't seen a hint that she is descended from a wizard. Or am I missing something? --71.28.212.32 (talk) 17:10, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

What's TBB —Preceding unsigned comment added by XX EOIN XX (talk • contribs) 18:56, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

BTW, TBB is Tales of Beedle the Bard. I honestly didn't catch that part about Hermione being descended from a wizard. So, if nobody caught that little part, TBB shouldn't be mentioned in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.68.23.33 (talk) 05:15, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

OWLS

Hermione recieves 11 owls not 10. I corrected it just now, but i dont have a source, just my copy of HBP which i just checked. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Potter349 (talk • contribs) 10:17, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

The book is a perfectly acceptable source, just add it as a source. Plenty of articles use non-online references. 181.28.145.177 (talk) 18:34, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Hermione Gingold

Anybody have a source for the London stage actress Hermione Gingold, who also played the witch in the film "Winter of the Witch" as well as "Munsters Go Home" and other movies being homaged by Miss Rowling with Hermione's name? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.18.128.22 (talk) 07:11, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Since Rowling took the name from a character in Shakespeare's The Winter's Tale, I would guess that no, no one has such a source. :-) faithless (^speak) 07:32, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Hermione Gingold was once noted for her wild hair, which may qualify her to be an ancestor of Hermione Granger. NRPanikker (talk) 14:46, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

It does nothing of the sort. GimliDotNet ^{(Speak to me,Stuff I've done)} 15:06, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Hermione Granger example to children

Croatian writer Giancarlo Kravar: Children are decided. Their film example is Hermione Granger. Intelligence, courage, and a strong work ethic are the main characteristics of the best friend of Harry Potter that have made the smartest student at Hogwarts won in the poll among British children whose results were published these days, writing the world's media transmits Croatian daily Glas Slavonia. Except that it always has a ready answer to the professor's question and every problem you can not find a logical solution, and know-it-all Hermione's love problems specialist, writes in the explanation of the survey results.78.2.90.230 (talk) 17:59, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Source? Glimmer721 ^talk 22:18, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Ravenclaw

The statement that the sorting hat almost put her in Ravenclaw in itself does not explain its relevence to the paragraph it is in - I suspect that if the reader knew anything about Hogwarts it would, but if I knew all about it, I wouldn't be reading this Page.

IceDragon64 (talk) 00:37, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

It does seem odd just dumped there in the middle of real-world analysis of the character. I've removed it for now - if someone wants to rewrite it and explain how 'nearly being sorted into ravenclaw' feel free. GimliDotNet ^{(Speak to me,Stuff I've done)} 07:31, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

In Boook 1, Chapter 7, Moment 2 of Pottermore , J.K. Rowling reveals that Hermione was alomst a hatstall (at four minutes) between Gryffindor and Ravenclaw, just like McGonagall and Flitwick before her. I think that it should be re-added to character analysis. ~~Tra~~ 13:51, 31 May 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.150.62.197 (talk)

References

Pictures

There's only one picture in here. I seem to remember, however, that there were a number of very good images in here, e. g. where Hermione was wearing the beautiful dress from the Yule Ball. Where have they all gone??? Deleting such beautiful and important pictures was an act of vandalism!!! --Krawunsel (talk) 12:29, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Does no one have an answer? --Krawunsel (talk) 18:47, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Well I'm not sure what the pictures were or where they went but 9 times out of 10 the reason pictures are removed is because they violate copyright laws. Perhaps that is why they were removed. Darkage7 (talk) 19:03, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

We could, however, put some pictures that are in accordance with the wiki policy. Just my two pence. BlackPearl14^{Pirate Lord-ess} 23:22, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

One of the criteria for fair use is that they qualify as minimal use. There needs to be a justification for why each image adds significantly to the article. I think the picture of her from the Ball would be acceptable because it was notable that her appearance was dramatically different in that scene. For An Angel (talk) 18:48, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

I think it DOES need more photos and pictures. Like the comment above, the pic with Hermione in the Yule Ball dress would be a nice one. It's sad how there's only one picture, and it's not exactly the most detailed, describing picture ever... it needs to show Hermione's personality, style, expressions. Also the setting of the photo: it's all blue, what does that say? That she lives in a blue light? The photo should include the setting of the Hugwarts castle. One more thing, Hermione was in the 6th year in that picture. Emma Watson changes alot over the years, so there should be some sort of Hermione Granger evolution section, where it shows how much she's changed. Good idea, right? :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.68.23.33 (talk) 05:20, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

The pictures don't show Hermione doing anything, they show an actress portraying her. The Harry Potter articles are really poor at separating the book characters from the film characters, and the film characters from the actors. GimliDotNet ^{(Speak to me,Stuff I've done)} 06:12, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Ah, yes, that old problem. IMHO we should keep pictures from the movie into a section on adaptations, like we do on Tolkien articles. Double sharp (talk) 14:29, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

The pictures would show an actress in the movie representation, while this article is about the character itself, originally described in the book. To keep thing neutral between book and movie, it's best to avoid pictures (for those who read the books but didn't see the movie, the actress would have no relation to the character, for example). HuGo_87 (talk) 14:08, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Yes, another picture or two would be great. Do a Google-search on < Hermione Granger > and then click on 'images' and you will see about 500 images (some not totally related). Yes, I agree another youthful picture would be good, like from her first movie, with her big smile and in her Gryffindor necktie. -- AstroU (talk) 21:55, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

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Cursed Child conflict

@Hz.tiang: thank you for approving my edit. @Mezigue: why did you revert it without explanation? It was cited from reliable sources. --174.92.135.167 (talk) 17:30, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Pending change

There is currently one pending change,

| portrayer = [[Emma Watson]] - all 8 movies

[[Noma Dumezweni]] - [[Harry Potter and the Cursed Child]] (play)

(Bold = text to be added.)

I recommend approving said pending changes. After all, it is significant that she was portrayed by Noma Dumezweni; and adding “all 8 movies” makes it clear that she was portrayed by Emma Watson in all 8 movies; as opposed to being portrayed by different people in different movies, as Albus Dumbledore was.--Solomonfromfinland (talk) 21:04, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Yes but she "was" not portrayed by Nona Dumezweni yet: the play opens in July. She'll be added to the infobox then. Mezigue (talk) 21:30, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Married – commonly accepted belief

Please see Talk:Harry Potter (character)/Archive 4#Married – commonly accepted belief for discussion also affects this article. Cheers, Kirin13 (talk) 18:31, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

She married Ron Weasley MicronesianHelper2016 (talk) 02:51, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

Little girl category

This seems an appropriate category, as she is in fact a little girl. For the majority of the books, she is under age of 18, which qualifies her as a girl. We are not using the end point of the stories to determine her article's content; we are using the largest portion of her fictionally notable life. Were that not true, the discussions about her and Ron's sexuality (or Krum's for that matter) would have continued on unabated, rather than being closed for discussion as inappropriate. As well, the name of the article is Hermione Granger, not Granger-Weasley or simply Hermione Weasley - that imparts that the greater part of why we know about her is because the books cover a sizable portion of her childhood. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 18:38, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

I'd be okay with it going either way, mainly because I'm worried that if we argue too much about it then it will just get deleted and then become a nonissue. (See: here) My opinion however is that she does belong in the category because she is most notable as a child and is an adult only in the epiloge of the last book. For An Angel (talk) 18:44, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

I respectfully disagree. My problem is in the wording of the name of the category. What exactly does 'little girl' mean? What are the criteria? Are we talking about physical stature or age? Obviously age, but it isn't clear enough, IMO. And at what age does one stop being a little girl? Perhaps because at the age of 24, I'm not too far removed from my teenage years, but I have never thought of teenagers as being little girls, I think of my eight-year-old niece as a little girl, but I wouldn't consider a high school freshman a little girl. For me, the term is for roughly ten-year-olds and under. This all seems moot, as the category looks headed for deletion. As an aside, I could support the recreation of the deleted 'Fictional children' category, but the criteria for inclusion in this one is just far too vague. faithless (^speak) 18:54, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree that it was a poor choice of words for the category. I meant "little girl" to mean "female child" and hopefully if the category doesn't get deleted at the CfD they will rename it to that. For An Angel (talk) 19:06, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Faithless, Little Girl is really for "little" girls and not teenagers which she is in six books out of seven considering in the wizarding world that 17 is the day you become an adult. A little girl should be considered as people in Primary school, not in secondary schools in other words, Hogwarts. Hermione Granger is no little girl, she is a teenager and in the final book she is in adult. Jammy (talk) 19:21, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

In retrospect, so do I. 'Little girl' is too vague. If there is a category for fictional teenagers, then the article (as well as many others) would fit in it. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 20:31, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

If the category gets renamed to Category:Fictional female children would it then be okay to include her? Consider that the already established Category:Children states its only for "articles about individuals who became notable as children (before age 18)." For An Angel (talk) 21:10, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

I also respectfully disagree. Hermione is is not way, or in no way was a little girl, in many aspects, she was a yonug woman and for the majority of the book a pre-teen or a teenager. When I think little girl, I would assume under 11. Plus, little girl seems "degrading" to the character. We all know Hermione was more then a normal girl, and more than other girls in the Harry Potter world. Hahen Bougetsu (talk) 11:45, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

"little Girl" is a purely subjective term and, I would suggest, irrelevant to the article. I have two nieces, one 17, one 15. The oldest is very much a mature young woman (mentally and physically), while the younger (by just under two years) is very much a "very, very, little girl." To suggest Hermione/Emma is one or the other based only on calender dates fails to take into account that all people mature at differing rates. The character of Hermione is very mature for her age mentally, and that I think is the point. She is a wise head on young shoulders. The fact that it takes the character (not the actress) a few more years to mature physically is part of the story. She had to grow her shoulders to catch up with her head. Fortunately Miss Watson was able to act the part, and mature on screen in line with the character. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.151.90.204 (talk) 16:24, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes, she was a little girl through it all.. but in the show, one of the professors told Harry that both Hermione and Ron- along with everyone else in the room are "of age" except for him (Harry). MicronesianHelper2016 (talk) 02:53, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

Dentists

The fact about Hermione's parents being dentists is already in the article, which is why I did not revert and provide a source. That source might be Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows or Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone chapter 12. Elizium23 (talk) 01:04, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Hermione's parents had such a dangerous job that one of their patients needed stitches lol MicronesianHelper2016 (talk) 02:55, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

How her name is pronounced by Rowling

As stated in this source. Kailash29792 (talk) 15:07, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

Already in the article - the fourth word, in fact: /hərˈmaɪ.əni / Chaheel Riens (talk) 15:49, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

It is not Rowling's pronunciation. It is the correct pronunciation of a name she did not invent! Mezigue (talk) 18:15, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

You mean "Harry" isn't a wizarding word!? Chaheel Riens (talk) 22:45, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

There is an amusing bit in the documentary on JKR from a while back where she goes to her old parish and goes through the register and chokes discovering she nicked a character's name from it - she had quite forgotten. Mezigue (talk) 21:57, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

Movies Noncanon

J.K.Rowling the series creator has stated publicly that Hermione is a black person and has always been a black person. Does that men with her being portrayed by a white in the movies, they are no longer to be considered canon?

It seems odd to me that the movie series does not contain a canon portrayal of Hermione, but there's no mention on what parts may or may nott break canon. I question Rowling's casting ability, if she was at the auditions for Hermione, she knew Hermione was a black person, and made no argument against the casting of a white in the place of a black person. Hermione is clearly not a white.92.24.146.250 (talk) 01:30, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

She never said this so... Correctron (talk) 01:42, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

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Last Appearance

Should Hermione's last appearance not be Cursed Child, And Harry and Ron's last appereances Shoulduld also be this?? Jordan8396.ja (talk) 03:39, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

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Hello everyone, I Finished an article about Neville Longbottom because I think he deserves his own page since he made great impact in the movie people are contesting to delete it since he already have a Neville Longbottom section in his article Dumbledore's Army this is the link to the article please make a fair vote https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neville_Longbottom_(Fictional_Character) --Moeelmekkawy (talk) 01:19, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 October 2019

Hermione Granger had dark skin, not pale skin. She had pale skin in the movies, but in the books it was stated that she had dark skin. I would like to remove pale skin, and change it to dark skin 68.145.36.201 (talk) 01:41, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

Where is the page and in what book that says that she has dark skin? I've read the books and I've only seen her described as having pale skin. Special:Contributions/HauntingStomper (talk) 02:10, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 09:46, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

Swazi

It said that Noma Dumezweni, who played Hermione in Harry Potter and the Cursed Child, was born in South Africa. In fact, Noma was born in Swaziland. I corrected that.--Solomonfromfinland (talk) 04:15, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

This website confirms that Noma was born in Swaziland: [1] "AMAZON ORIGINAL: THE ARGONAUTS: Noma Dumezweni: Actress | Miscellaneous Crew". (Coincidentally, it depicts, on the side, a girl who looks rather like Emma Watson-Hermione.)--Solomonfromfinland (talk) 04:19, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

Confund spell

Should the reference to 'confund spell' actually be 'confundus spell'? I would have corrected it, but it was marked 'not a typo' Faolin42 (talk) 22:39, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

Agree I saw the exact same typo, but did not want to change it either. I would also have corrected it to 'confundus charm' because that is its proper name that's used in the books and movies. Liamyangll (talk) 03:24, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Addition of the illustration picture

Hi all, this article (as well as others) is very film-centric. I have added Jim Kay's illustration of Hermione from the British Illustrated edition in order to portray the character in a literary fashion. Bottomlivefan95 (talk) 13:01, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Family tree

I think the family tree should be removed- Hermione is only actually in the tree because she married Ron, otherwise it's completely unrelated, showing the Blacks, the Weasleys, and the Potters. It wouldn't be able to be fixed, since (as far as I can remember) the only info we have on Hermione's heritage is her parents, who aren't even named. The tree should be removed completely, I reckon. SillyBilly3 (talk) 19:27, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

 Done the family tree provides no relevant information here. —El Millo (talk) 19:41, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Disambiguation

On "Hermione (disambiguation)", someone removed any mention of Hermione Granger. This is totally unjustified! Said mention should logically go under "Characters", where (the nowadays far less famous) Hermione of The Winter's Tale by Shakespeare is, appropriately, listed. In fact, i am considering whether "Hermione" should simply redirect to "Hermione Granger"; given that she is nowadays overwhelmingly the most famous use of the name "Hermione". In a Google search of "Hermione", almost all results refer to Hermione Granger. In Google Images, if you look up "Hermione"; of the first 50 results, the number of results that don't refer to Hermione Granger, will most likely be zero. Zero! If that's not convincing, then what is?--Solomonfromfinland (talk) 09:10, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

I've reinserted it. If you checked the article history you'd see that her inclusion exclusion was a long-running edit war. I'm against the proposal that Hermione should redirect to Hermione Granger, whilst she is a popular instance of the name, I don't think she warrants a redirect such as that. As can be seen by the current Hermione article - there are many other uses of the name that warrant inclusion as well. Being the most popular instance these days does not suddenly remove any relevance of previous uses of the name. Chaheel Riens (talk) 10:01, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

I agree with Chaheel Riens. Including a link to this article at the dab page is a good idea, but I lean against the redirect proposal. If you're serious about it, Solomonfromfinland, I'd recommend basing your argument in WP:PTOPIC and proposing a WP:RM. Firefangledfeathers 17:55, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

Chaheel Riens and Firefangledfeathers, thank you very much.

Regarding the possible move; "primary topic" and "requested move" are naturally the very thing i had in mind. I am undecided whether i will pursue said move proposal further. That edit war sounds ridiculous; it is obvious that Hermione Granger is more that famous enuf to warrant mention. Was the edit war due to people who hate Harry Potter? "does not suddenly remove any relevance of previous uses..." I agree; after all, there is Hermione of The Winter's Tale, or Greek mythology; and the name is not unknown as a given name in the real world. However, Hermione Granger is overwhelmingly the most famous use of said name, hence counts as the "primary topic", depending on your definition of "primary topic". (Tho "primary topic" obviously does not remove the significance of other uses of said name; hence many of the disambiguation pages on Wikipedia.)

Btw, Chaheel Riens and Firefangledfeathers, please do defend Hermione Granger's inclusion in "Hermione (disambiguation)". We don't want more vandalism or edit wars. Makes me wonder whether said disambiguation should be semi-protected. (Is semi-protection doable for disambiguation pages?)--Solomonfromfinland (talk) 19:00, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

I added, to said disambiguation, another fictional character: "Hermione Lodge, mother of Veronica Lodge, in Archie Comics". It seems that Hermione Lodge should be included; after all, it a disambiguation page, so the notability threshold needed for a quick mention is probably rather low.--Solomonfromfinland (talk) 19:20, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

Just updated my original comment slightly - it should have said "exclusion", not "inclusion". The article was protected due to the aforementionned edit-warring/vandalism, but it ran out on 29th December. Whether it needs doing again will depend on article activity going forwards. Chaheel Riens (talk) 19:53, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

I have the dab page watchlisted. Verbcatcher's (pinging so they're aware of this convo) recent removal is obviously good-faith, but most of the removals over the past months have been a LTA that is virulently anti-Hermione Granger. Yes, dab pages can be semi-protected, and that one was a couple times last year (Protection log). Firefangledfeathers 19:54, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

I was following the pattern used for other names, such as in John / John (given name) and Elizabeth / Elizabeth (given name), where people and characters with the given name are only listed in the page for given name, and not in the main disambiguation page. However, I am not an expert on this and the guidance at MOS:DABNAME could be clearer. I am against the suggested redirect to Hermione Granger. Verbcatcher (talk) 22:04, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

Thanks Verbcatcher. I have been as guilty of this as anyone, but further discussion about the dab page probably belongs at the dab talk page. Firefangledfeathers 22:09, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

"Jane Granger" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Jane Granger and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 January 15#Jane Granger until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she/they) 04:35, 15 January 2022 (UTC)