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Talk:Grove City College/Archive 1

< Talk:Grove City College
Latest comment: 4 years ago by Danielklotz in topic Sources for the People section
Archive 1
Latest comment: 16 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

I thought that the GCC logo was changed to a maroon shield with three white wavy lines a few years ago. The logo displayed in the article is the old one. Am I wrong about this?

208.58.7.8 (talk) bored 208.58.7.8 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 12:36, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

--Emplynx 00:46, Jan 3, 2005 (UTC)

Hey, go for it. I would suggest modeling the new page after a previously established college's page, but you seem to already have that idea. Consult college review sources such as Princeton Review for statistics about the College; as a student there you should also have access to more detailed information that outsiders may not. Don't ever hesitate to add relative information to Wikipedia. Enlighten us! --BDD 02:05, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I really don't know what you are talking about, but I worked a little bit on the definition. I think im going to work on it some more later this month, cuz it really is tiny. --Alphachimp 12:25, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

Republicans?

While I imagine the quotation "most students and professors are registered Republicans" is true, it can't really be verified. We should probably remove that.

Needs updates/More Information

I'd be interested in taking up the task of Grove City College. I.E. Getting more info like President, History... (Making it compete with Carnegie Mellon's nice entry). Grove City has a lot of history that could be written about. Anyone have an comments and suggestions? I know that the WikiProject Universities is being debated. Should I start now?

Whitewashed?

Latest comment: 14 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Are we not beyond that era? Are not all men are created equal in the eyes of God.

I don't mean to offend anyone when I say that I've heard of some questionable events from GCC's past, namely racist policies. I admit I don't know much about the specifics of these events, but I understand they were significant, and indeed came to this page hoping to read something about them. I believe that either (a) this page is whitewashed, written with a biased POV; or (b) any stories I have heard have been greatly exaggerated. Can anyone comment on this? --BDD 02:03, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Geez, I've been here 3 years, have checked out every piece of gossip I could (like the Dean getting fired for drunken misconduct, tunnels under the quad, students having secret abortions), and I've never heard of old racist policies. So if the page is missing some real info, it's not a whitewash - I'll post anything I can find and source. --Nick Douglas 20:30, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Nothing personal but your 3 years of research were wasted. Firings of employees is private lest lawsuits result however if you think you have angels for professors and administrators you're in a dream world. The "tunnels under the quad" are mine shafts and they do exist all over the campus. These became quite evident when the new rec center was built and tons upon tons of cement had to be pumped into the ground to fill a portion so the center would not sink. One good earthquake and much of the campus could sink. The tunnel entrances are sealed but one only has to look at the water from the campus entering Wolf Creek on Pine Street even in a drought to see iron laden tunnel water draining. However, don't take my word for it, maps of these shafts exist.

As far as racism, one only needs to research academic records. Not as prevalent these days, the numbers are still not equal to the population.

Why not include the school's student body demographics as a refutation, then? This page has seemed to function mostly as a pubic relations tool for employees/defenders of GCC, so why not print some facts regarding how many black students, or Latino students, attend this bastion of freedom GCC? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.201.12.244 (talk) 15:29, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Ivy League rumor?

Latest comment: 18 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

If we can't substantiate it, we ought to delete it -- WP is not a rumor mill. 18.187.0.44 19:43, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

I agree, and I'm removing it until we can figure out if it's true or not. --Nothlit 20:33, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

More traditions

Latest comment: 18 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The entry needs some info on the traditional "creeking" of recently engaged male students. There may be other traditions worth noting. --Nick Douglas 16:21, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

(Lack of) Gay Rights

Latest comment: 16 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

GCC is also becoming central to the ex-gay movement, with Warren Throckmorton's prominence. There should be mention of a) his role b) the school's policies (which shifted from outlawing homosexuality to homosexual activity) and c) LGBT students at the school.

Quite frankly, I don't feel that it bears that much significance to the school article. The homosexuality policy does not appear to be a major issue. Perhaps it would be valuable to create an article about Throckmorton? --Alphachimp talk 04:28, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
A Wikipedia Article on Dr. Warren Throckmorton has been added. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SeekFind (talk • contribs) 04:18, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

John Gechter controversy

Latest comment: 15 years ago11 comments3 people in discussion

Why do you continue to remove John Gechter as a "notable alumni?" He is by all definition of the term one of the most famous GCC graduates in the history of the school. Leave it up, please. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.17.161.228 (talk) 01:29, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

This article is supposed to be neutral, not the Neocon version of how some graduates idealize Grove City College; stop taking down Gechter stuff, please
It is my understanding that he has not graduated. Why should a non graduate be included in the "notable alumni" section? He has been suspended, and he has stated that he will complete his degree work at another school. How does this make him an alumni? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.109.220.247 (talk) 01:33, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Please refer to WPXI Pittsburgh http://www.wpxi.com/news/19436623/detail.html to note that Gechter's degree will be conferred from GCC —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.17.161.228 (talk) 01:35, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

He holds no degree from GCC and cannot be added to the alumni page without one. What is your logic for adding someone who holds no GCC degree to the notable alumni page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.109.220.247 (talk) 01:38, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

He has enough credits to graduate, his degree will say "Grove City College." This is supposed to be an encyclopedia, not the Internet version of The Collegian. Be neutral or stop editing here —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.17.161.228 (talk) 01:41, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

That is great. Perhaps his name can be considered for the notable alumni section once he receives that degree. You have still not answered my previous question. If he currently holds no degree, why should he be included in a section for alumni? 198.109.220.247 (talk) 01:47, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Fair enough, live on your technicalities. But "perhaps" nothing; once his piece of paper says "Grove City College" then he is added to that section and any neutral party would not consider taking his name down. He is much more notable than people like the singer for the Gathering Field that no one outside of a four-county radius has any idea who he is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.17.161.228 (talk) 01:50, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Why does being an adult film star make him notable? 198.109.220.247 (talk) 01:53, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

He is nationally famous, just like Warren Throckmorton. That would be the standard if you were truly neutral. Are you affiliated with GCC? Is that why you don't want his name up here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.17.161.228 (talk) 01:54, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Notable and sensational are two very different things. He is certainly sensational, but he is not notworthy. 198.109.220.247 (talk) 01:58, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Sharon Herald is reporting (5-13-09) that GCC is saying no degree for John unless he passes administrative review of "conduct." If notable alumni section is graduates only--although Wiki defines 'alumni' as former students as well--then it is understandable to exclude him for now. Please remember that Wikipedia is not the GCC public relations website, thanks.151.201.55.238 (talk) 13:29, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Major Changes

I made two changes to the list of majors at Grove City College. Recently entrepeneurship was added to the list of offered majors. Also, the religion major at Grove City College is distinctly and purposefully not a religion major, since it only deals with Christian theology, history, etc. So I changed it to Christian Thought, which is the name used by GCC.

Marketing Management

Latest comment: 18 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

Marketing management is a major offered by Grove City College, as referenced on the following page:

Business Department

Please discuss future changes on this page. Thanks.--Alphachimp 19:21, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

My apologies. The change to the majors list was added with a lot of other nonsense by the same IP at the same time, so I chalked it up to vandalism. Sorry about that. --TangentIdea 01:48, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
No worries. Thanks for being conscientious. --Alphachimp talk 03:02, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

School Policies Section

Latest comment: 18 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I just changed the order around a bit in the school policies section (it appears to be mostly about alcohol.) I think it's a little bit more logical. I also changed some of the grammar around that section. --Alphachimp talk 04:26, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

What about a printer?

Latest comment: 16 years ago4 comments4 people in discussion

I do not understand the entry about the kid that threw a printer out the window and got suspended. Are there any more details? Is this appropriate for the article? --Captain Flatulence 01:33, Dec 13, 2006 (UTC)

It's ongoing, so it'll be updated with new developments and eventually deleted if nothing significant comes of it. For the moment, it's sparked a 400-student-strong protest and is still gaining momentum. --72.23.224.17 06:01, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
Uh, no, it won't. The fact that some students appear to have had a run in with a college's administration is not sufficiently notable to merit inclusion in said college's wikipedia article. Alphachimp 07:07, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
I have to agree with Alphachimp. These kinds of "student uprisings" are far too common, not only at Grove City but at schools across the country. Unless it draws attention from a larger community (e.g., the UCLA Taser incident) then I don't see how it has any relevance on Wikipedia. Great fodder for the editorial page of The Collegian, maybe, but not here. --Nothlit 04:56, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
The suggestion that student uprisings are "far too common...at Grove City" College is simply untrue.

--bored —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.58.5.169 (talk) 13:34, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Cost

Not sure if it's worth making the change, but as of this year the cost is bumped up to $17,634, which depending on your perspective may or may not be "about $16000." Due to my own desire for round numbers, might it be better to say "less than $20000" which will be true for another few years (most likely) and still sort of sets it apart from many similar schools which are in the $30000 range? Again, it's not an important issue, but in my mind "about 16k" implies a much more precise figure than "about" a round number, such as 15k or 20k. Oh, and their FAQ has been updated to show that price, not sure if it needs to be cited or not.

Another nice thing about GCC is that the cost that they quote is for tuition, room, board, and most other expenses. Most others are in the $30,000 range for tuition alone. I think it needs changing.

Boettke

Latest comment: 16 years ago5 comments3 people in discussion

I'm not really sold on Peter Boettke being included under a notable alumni/professors section. Whether you like the guy or not, he's not really that note worthy. 213.37.192.62 (talk) 11:09, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I have removed Boettke from the notable almuni list due to a lack of interest in the above comment. If anyone can justify his inclusion, please discuss here first. 213.37.192.62 21:07, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

He has a Wikipedia article which seems to establish his notability. There are 14 redlinked names on the list right now, most of which should probably go. Boettke is one (formerly) on the list who actually seems notable. Staecker 01:19, 3 December 2007 (UTC)


I don't know why you would think that Peter Boettke isn't a notable alumni. The man's achievements are quite impressive. Consider :

1) National Fellow at the Hoover Institution for War, Revolution and Peace at Stanford University

2) Visiting professor or scholar at the Russian Academy of Sciences in Moscow, the Max Planck Institute for Research into Economic Systems in Jena, Germany, the Stockholm School of Economics, Central European University in Prague and Charles University in Prague.

3) Author of several books on the history, collapse and transition from socialism in the former Soviet Union.

4) Editor of the Review of Austrian Economics. The Review of Austrian Economics was founded by late Murray Rothbard in mid-1980s to promote research and the further development of the Austrian School of Economics. Boetkke is in fact one of the more eminent professors affiliated with the Austrian School of Economics. He was in fact the former President of the Society for the Development of Austrian Economics.

5) Has won numerous teaching awards, including the Golden Dozen Award for Excellence in Teaching from the College of Arts and Sciences at New York University.

In light of these, I would seriously reconsider putting him back among Grove City College's noted alumni —Preceding unsigned comment added by Spirikitik (talk • contribs) 19:12, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I have reincluded Boettke, although I think two points should maybe be made. First, just because he is more notable than some others on the list does not justify his inclusion, it could be that the others should also not be included. Second, the notable persons at other universities are pretty dignified (ie: nobel prize winners, US presidents, etc). I hope that we are not watering down the distinction of being 'notable' by including people who are maybe less so than others. I will also put Boettke as editor of the RAE, as this makes him marginally more notable than just another prof. 213.37.192.62 20:37, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Center For Vision and Values

A new Wikipedia Article has been added for Grove City College's Center for Vision and Values. You are all invited to add to/modify it to make it more informative. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Spirikitik (talk • contribs)

Third paragraph in introductory section

Latest comment: 15 years ago6 comments3 people in discussion

The third paragraph in the introductory section (statistics) might be part of the reason that the "Advert" tag was added to this article a few months ago. I've looked at other Wikipedia entries for private liberal arts colleges, and I can't find many examples of articles that delve in to this material in the introduction. Any feedback on moving this information down to the "Rankings" section and perhaps summarizing it in a sentence in the introduction? --Mikhailovich (talk) 16:04, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Mikhailovich, do you know more precisely when the advert tag was added? It may have been me; I tend to do that since I work so heavily with college and university articles but don't always find the time to do the cleanup on my own. You're right, that third paragraph in the lead is a bit odd, since the lead should be a summary of the body, not a collection of rankings and statistics. That stuff is usually added for booster purposes. Anyway, if you're looking for a general guide to what this article should look like, check out WP:UNIGUIDE. As for articles on other private liberal arts colleges, don't believe everything you read. I'm convinced that even some FAs and GAs aren't always all that they're cracked up to be, and most articles are worthless for comparison unless they've been through at least one of those systematic peer review processes. I honestly think that UNIGUIDE's your best bet to improving Grove City College. Cheers! --Aepoutre (talk) 16:20, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Can we stick that paragraph in the "Institution" section, near the accreditation and rankings sections? ~EdGl ★ 17:57, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
It may need to be culled first. After taking a closer look, it seems some of the figures are garnered from GCC's own website. If its a question of simple facts then it's no big deal, but such information is usually for booster purposes and I'm not sure if one can always rely on self-reported numbers like that, especially when someone chose to place it all in the lead for the sake of prominence. What do you guys think? Honestly, I don't see how this information improves the article, or Wikipedia for that matter, at all. --Aepoutre (talk) 18:04, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
I agree -- wherever this information is placed, it should be clearly noted the the statistics are from the school itself. But I do think they're worth reporting. The "Institution" section, near "Rankings," would be best. --Mikhailovich (talk) 19:00, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
[1] and [2] are the independent sources cited in that paragraph, and it looks like they even have additional statistics. Perhaps we could get all the statistical information we need from these sites (and other places besides GCC's website) and remove the "irrelevant" stats. ~EdGl ★ 19:05, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Latest comment: 15 years ago10 comments3 people in discussion

The current External Links section seems too much like a crowded bibliography. The first five links are all good and relevant, but the rest seem to be articles or sources that should be cited as references when appropriate, not just jotted down in the External Links section. Motion to move or remove. --Mikhailovich (talk) 03:11, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

EdGl's analysis

Here's how I see it; my comments in bold:

~EdGl ★ 03:37, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Done, largely based on your suggestions. All important links incorporated into article as relevant sources. Thanks for your help cleaning this up. --Mikhailovich (talk) 01:40, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for implementing it. Looks a lot better now, especially since I used the cite book template for the book in the further reading section :) ~EdGl ★ 02:15, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Very nice. It always strikes me as unprofessional to have direct links to commercial retailers on wiki articles. --Mikhailovich (talk) 02:23, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Can someone please explain how the following links add to readers' understanding of this topic? To me, they seem more indicative of a directory of links related to this topic than resources that help readers understand the topic.
--ElKevbo (talk) 16:40, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
I don't think we need the link to the web portal, because I think the official website suffices, but I the other two links can give the reader more information on the subject. The links would otherwise be in the body of the article, but are placed in the External links section per style guidelines. They don't match any criteria for removal according to WP:ELNO, which applies to external links (as opposed to WP:NOTDIR which you brought up; that applies to entire articles). ~EdGl ★ 17:47, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
I disagree. Rather than focusing on what links to not include, a stance that would lead to a huge mess as it would shift the burden that currently exists on editors to justify why they want to include content, let's focus on what they add to the article. I submit that they add very little. This is not an article about "The Center for Vision and Values" or "WSAJ" but Grove City College. Readers will gain little new understanding of GCC by visiting those websites. If we add those links, why not add links to every center, program, and department affiliated with GCC? This is an encyclopedia article, not a directory of GCC-related links (no, not even the "External links" section is intended to be a directory of GCC-related links).
So I ask: How do these links add to readers' understanding of this topic? That's the fundamental question that must be answered. --ElKevbo (talk) 18:38, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
I just noticed that the Center and the radio station have their own articles, so the external links should be in their respective articles, not here. So you're ultimately right; only the official site should be externally linked in this article. (However, going through WP:FA#Education, some articles on colleges and universities have links to their athletics, newspaper, etc. Maybe you want to weed some of those external links out.) ~EdGl ★ 20:49, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
I generally don't mind links to the intercollegiate athletic webpages of most American institutions as those are (sadly) both large enough and separate-but-still-related enough to warrant a link, IMHO. One could, of course, make an alternative argument that would have merit. But I don't know how much support one would have in removing those links. Similarly, I'm sure that there are many articles - including FAs - with extraneous links. I weed them out as I see them but I'm pretty careful with FAs as I am cognizant of the scrutiny and compromise that most of them have already endured. --ElKevbo (talk) 20:58, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Teaching with Wikipedia Workshop at CMU (Aug 15)

Latest comment: 12 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Editors interested in this article may find the Teaching with Wikipedia Workshop that will take place at CMU on Aug 15 of interest. This workshop is open to general public, and is a joint imitative of CMU and Pitt). There will be another workshop held at Pitt in the Fall as well. It will cover how to include Wikipedia in one's course (WP:SUP) and also how to become a Wikipedia:Campus Ambassadors. Pennsylvania has currently only one ambassador (myself) and it would be great if we could recruit at least several more. Ambassadors help course instructors, showing them how Wikipedia works, and interact with students. Many current ambassadors come from the body of students, faculty and university staff; it is a fun adventure, and adds to one resume/CV, to boot :) If it sounds interesting, feel free to ask me any questions, or to come to the workshop. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 20:32, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Fraternity correction

Latest comment: 12 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

I just wanted to let you guys know that I edited the fraternity section by deleting Omicron XI from the list of fraternities that have died out and took a block class. I'm new to using wikipedia so I'm not sure of the proper etiquette involved in changing something (whether or not I should have discussed it first) but I know first hand that that is not true. I would be very interested in where that information originally came from. The Okies are alive and well and have never taken a block class (and we will be celebrating our 60 year anniversary this year). Thanks and please feel free to contact me about any Omicron Xi or Grove City College related questions (bkovach@midsouth.rr.com). Bkovach 21:50, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I just want to point out that someone keeps changing Zeta Xi Omega into the fraternity listing. Zeta Xi Omega is an Independent Men's Residence Group (aka Housing Group) as it clearly states on the gcc.edu webpage of campus organizations. I took the liberty of citing my change as well. 1:00, 13 October 2011 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sigmadeltaphigcc (talk • contribs)

Thank you but your edit was unclear and didn't cite any sources. You don't need to discuss your edits and receive approval but you do need to cite a reliable source. Please let me know if you need help doing that! ElKevbo (talk) 05:47, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

April 2012 removal of unsourced material

Latest comment: 12 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Normally I just use the edit summary to explain pulling unsourced statements from an article; but it's such a large amount of unsourced material, that I wanted to give an explanation longer than an edit summary, because this article is a can of worms. The pair of my edits is combined here. I'll start with what I removed.

  • First: I've removed a noticable amount of unsourced claims, though, unfortunately, not much relative to the size of the unsourced material. Things I've removed include:
    • A small section ("Chapel") that went unsourced for 6 months with a tag and a claim that students are refused graduation if they don't go to chapel.
    • Another whole section ("Traditions") that went a year and a half with a tag and was of marginal relevance anyway.
    • A claim that an unsourced fact (though probably true) meant that the college was "showing that it wants to spread its influence" (a matter of WP:Synthesis that had no supporting interpretation from WP:Reliable sources).
    • A claim that the "student handbook forbids any sexual conduct that violates historic Christian standards", with no reference; followed by an opinion, also unsourced, claiming "subtly changing" attitude towards homosexuality and something about the (unsourced and unexplained) housing policy changes in the 1980s being evidence. This was followed by a ranking from The Princeton Review showing GCC as having a (very high) spot in the most "LGBT-unfriendly schools in the United States"; neither TPR's public webpage nor the claim in the article reveals the methodology, the number of schools ranked, or even any other details.
  • Second: I've removed a sentence that was direct plagiarism ("...ultimately forge a remarkable relationship that would profoundly influence the purpose and character..."), without quotation marks or citation, from page 8 of Freedom's College: The History of Grove City College by Lee Edwards. That by itself probably isn't enough to invoke WP:COPYVIO yet, but it's certainly plagiarism and I yanked it, and I'm afraid there may be other statements sprinkled about that were lifted from similar places and/or that a lot of the article may have been cut-and-pasted from various sources I just haven't found yet.

Above is just the removals I actually did. Here's some of what's left that is still up for decimation:

  • Third: In the section "Connections to think tanks", there are several claims about what conservative organizations are and do, which are simply cut-and-paste advertising lines from press releases from those organizations, unquoted. I didn't even bother to tag most of them, but they need to be put in quotes and given qualifiers — or, better yet, replaced with more balanced descriptions from multiple sources.
  • Fourth: I tried to limit myself to putting inline tags just on claims that seem especially bold, and therefore especially need references: but even then, I still added 11 {{cn}} and {{whom?}} tags! And that's not counting the WP:BLP issued in the alumni list (see next).
  • Fifth: Considering the sourced claims that are made about this institution — Grove City College v. Bell, longest-standing censure from the AAUP, ties with highly politicized organizations — claiming that a person is an alum or was accepted to teach at GCC seems like a statement about that person's character, and needs to follow WP:BLP if the person is still alive. I've explicitly tagged only the 14 of them that have no source whatsoever; it may be that many others have citations that still don't show that the person talked about was at GCC!

So, having said all that, to ward off any untagging or unsourced restoration:

  • Per WP:PROVEIT, it is the responsibility of the person adding material, including re-adding removed material, to provide sufficient verifiable reliable sources at the time the claim is (re-)added.
  • Per WP:BLP, unsourced material is supposed to be removed immediately if there is any chance that it applies controversial claims to a living person. Considering the thrust of this article's content, it does not seem like the sort of thing someone who wasn't part of it would like to be associated with — and there are at least 14 (mostly presumably living) people being claimed as attached to this subject with no source. If this isn't resolved pretty much imminently, each unsourced line about a person allegedly connected to GCC should be removed. (As in, if someone removes all fourteen people 5 minutes from now it won't be too fast.)

In any case — since there are so many fairly bold claims without citations — I want to point out that the next step is not to remove the citation-needed tags because there are so many of them: I added them to point out when each claim was noticed to be unsourced, unless someone would like them all to be considered older than the oldest tag on the article, and treated appropriately. If someone doesn't like so many tags, the next step is to either provide a reliable citation for each, or remove the unsourced material — removal of unsourced claims will get no complaint from me; I think was being soft on the amount of material to be yanked, if anything. --Closeapple (talk) 06:45, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Princeton Review LGBT ranking

Latest comment: 12 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Anyone interested in this can comment at Talk:Brigham Young University#Princeton Review LGBT ranking. Staecker (talk) 11:48, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Latest comment: 8 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Latest comment: 8 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Latest comment: 8 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

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Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Who is Dr Gara?

Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The article says that the college was under censure from the AAUP for 53 years "because of the dismissal of Dr. Gara." Can anyone help identify this person and what the matter was about? — Preceding unsigned comment added by RogerLustig (talk • contribs) 19:27, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Latest comment: 6 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Latest comment: 6 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

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Source suggestion

Latest comment: 5 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I noticed that several people keep adding or deleting fraternities from here without providing any sources. Should there be a statement here to the effect that sources must be provided for each fraternity on the list to show that it is still in existence here? Diamond Blizzard talk 03:23, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

For Discussion: Remove street address from infobox?

Latest comment: 4 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

The infobox currently represents the college's location in a redundant manner: "100 Campus Drive, Grove City, Pennsylvania 16127, Grove City, Pennsylvania, United States".

It's the result of using all four of these fields in {{Infobox university}}:

  • City
  • State
  • Country
  • Address

The last of those fields, "address," conflicts with the other three. Regarding that "address" field, the infobox university documentation instructs editors, "Please discuss before using," because a specific street address is usually not the most informative way to describe the location of a college/university, which may have one or more large campuses.

I suggest bringing this article's infobox in line with the infoboxes of university articles with Featured Article status, such as Dartmouth College and Michigan State University, by making these three changes:

  1. Remove the "address" field from the infobox
  2. Add this line to the infobox: | coordinates = {{Coord|41|9|22|N|80|4|48|W|region:US-PA_type:edu|display=inline,title}}
  3. Remove this line from the end of the article: {{Coord|41.156|N|80.08|W|region:US-PA_type:edu|display=title}}

As per the documentation for the infobox, I'm raising this for discussion.

-- DanielKlotz (talk · contribs) 21:35, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

Your suggestion looks reasonable to me. Marquardtika (talk) 00:48, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
Hearing no other input and no dissension after allowing 90+ days, I implemented this change. Thank you. -- DanielKlotz (talk · contribs) 14:46, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
Latest comment: 4 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Edit request:

  • Please remove a template and a category that are included at the bottom of the article:
    • {{Presbyterian Colleges}}
    • [[Category:Universities and colleges affiliated with the Presbyterian Church (USA)]]
  • Please add two categories:
    • [[Category:Nondenominational Christian universities and colleges in the United States]]
    • [[Category:Liberal arts colleges in Pennsylvania]]

Explanation and references:

  • As directly stated in the article's lead and in its infobox, Grove City College was once affiliated with the Presbyterian Church but is no longer. Likewise, it was once a member of the Association of Presbyterian Colleges and Universities but is no longer.
  • While I believe this edit is uncontentious, as a COI editor I am submitting this as an edit request in case other editors have a different assessment of the situation.

Thank you. -- DanielKlotz (talk · contribs) 19:39, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

Reply 21-JAN-2020

   Edit request implemented    Spintendo  03:33, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

Two additional citations for History section

Latest comment: 4 years ago4 comments2 people in discussion

Background: Grove City College is a liberal arts college in Pennsylvania, United States. The History section of this article (in the the Founding subsection) begins with an explanation that the school's founder is Isaac Ketler and that it received significant financial support from Joseph Newton Pew. The article then makes the claim that each of these men had a son who continued their fathers' influence on the college. The relevant sentence has been (appropriately) flagged with {{citation needed}} since 2012. The sentence reads:

Pew and Ketler's influence continued with their sons, Weir C. Ketler (Grove City president from 1916 to 1956) and John Howard Pew.

To be added: I request the addition of these two citations, to clear up the {{citation needed}} flag. I'm including an explanation of each citation:

  • An obituary for Weir C. Ketler from the AP that ran in the New York Times verifies the claim that he was the president of Grove City College 1916 to 1956. Since he was college president for 40 years, it seems fair for this sentence to claim that he exerted influence upon the college. Example citation:
<ref name="Weir Ketler obit">{{cite news |title=Weir C. Ketler, College President, 98 |url=https://www.nytimes.com/1987/12/20/obituaries/weir-c-ketler-college-president-98.html |accessdate=February 11, 2020 |work=The New York Times |date=December 20, 1987 |page=46}}</ref>
  • The New York Times obituary for John Howard Pew establishes that during his life he "had served as president of the board of trustees of Grove City College." It seems reasonable to conclude that in this position he, also, exerted influence upon the college. Example citation:
<ref name="J. Howard Pew obit">{{cite news |title=J. Howard Pew of Sun Oil Dies; Served as Presidentior for 35 Years |url=https://www.nytimes.com/1971/11/28/archives/j-howard-pew-of-sun-oil-dies-served-as-president-for-35-years-he.html |accessdate=February 11, 2020 |work=The New York Times |date=November 28, 1971 |page=73}}</ref>

Thank you.

-- DanielKlotz (talk · contribs) 17:12, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

Reply 11-FEB-2020

   Clarification requested  

  • It's unclear what the already-existing sentence in the article means when it uses the term influence. One person's definition of influence may be different from another. Thus, for the references to be used, the sentence should be paraphrased to state simply what the information in the NYT obits say, per WP:OBVIOUS.

Regards,  Spintendo  21:15, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

Proposed paraphrase

  • In that case, I propose replacing the sentence in question with this:
Pew and Ketler had sons who, like their fathers, were involved with the college – Weir C. Ketler as president (from 1916 to 1956) and John Howard Pew as president of the board of trustees.

-- DanielKlotz (talk · contribs) 19:52, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

Reply 13-FEB-2020

   Edit request implemented    Spintendo  13:55, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

Sources for the People section

Latest comment: 4 years ago5 comments2 people in discussion

The People section of this article has been flagged with the {{BLP sources|list of people}} template since 2012, because a source is missing for many of the people listed. I have found sources that establish the fact that these people are associated with Grove City College as alumni, faculty, or past presidents. Those sources are listed below. I believe that this article would be improved by adding these additional sources to the article and the {{BLP sources}} template then being removed. Since I have a disclosed conflict of interest, I am providing this as an edit request rather than editing the article directly.

Edit request

Alumni

<ref>{{cite web |last1=DiStefano |first1=Joseph |title=Will CEO Ed Breen slash DuPont or grow it? |url=Will CEO Ed Breen slash DuPont or grow it? |website=The Philadelphia Inquirer |accessdate=March 10, 2020 |date=November 15, 2015}}</ref>
<ref>{{cite web |last1=Fang |first1=Lee |title=Sphere of Influence: How American Libertarians Are Remaking Latin American Politics |url=https://theintercept.com/2017/08/09/atlas-network-alejandro-chafuen-libertarian-think-tank-latin-america-brazil/ |website=The Intercept |accessdate=March 10, 2020 |date=August 9 2017}}</ref>
<ref>{{cite web |title=Larry Critchfield |url=https://www.justsportsstats.com/footballstatsindex.php?player_id=critclar001 |website=JustSportsStats.com |accessdate=March 10, 2020}}</ref>
<ref>{{cite web |title=Schwab, Arthur J. |url=https://www.fjc.gov/history/judges/schwab-arthur-j |publisher=Federal Judicial Center |accessdate=March 10, 2020}}</ref>
<ref>{{cite web |last1=Barbara |first1=Vancheri |title=Film Notes: 'Dodo the Docu/Comedy' offers look at twisted family life |url=https://www.post-gazette.com/ae/movies/2010/04/16/Film-Notes-Dodo-the-Docu-Comedy-offers-look-at-twisted-family-life/stories/201004160197 |website=Pittsburgh Post-Gazette |accessdate=March 10, 2020 |date=April 16, 2010}}</ref>
<ref>{{cite journal |title=Biography - George Clark Southworth |journal=Transactions of the IRE Professional Group on Microwave Theory and Techniques |date=January 1955 |volume=3 |issue=1 |page=2 |url=https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1124894 |publisher=Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers}}</ref>
<ref>{{cite web |last1=Masley |first1=Ed |title=Weekend Music: Optimistic frontman keeps the Gathering Field playing to win |url=http://old.post-gazette.com/magazine/19990409gather8.asp |website=Pittsburgh Post-Gazette |accessdate=March 10, 2020 |date=April 9, 1999}}</ref>
<ref>{{cite web |title=Mose Lantz |url=https://www.justsportsstats.com/footballstatsindex.php?player_id=lantzmos001 |website=JustSportsStats.com |accessdate=March 10, 2020}}</ref>
<ref>{{cite web |last1=Armour |first1=Mark |title=Gary Peters |url=https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/28c24b41 |publisher=Society for American Baseball Research |accessdate=March 10, 2020}}</ref>
<ref>{{cite web |title=Porter, David James |url=https://www.fjc.gov/node/5373046 |publisher=Federal Judicial Center |accessdate=March 10, 2020}}</ref>
<ref>{{cite web |title=Ranjan, J. Nicholas |url=https://www.fjc.gov/node/6731086 |publisher=Federal Judicial Center |accessdate=March 10, 2020}}</ref>
<ref>{{cite web |last1=McClallen |first1=Scott |title=Q&A: Foundation of Economic Education President Reed |url=http://hillsdalecollegian.com/2018/03/43332/ |website=The Hillsdale Collegian |accessdate=March 10, 2020 |date=March 15, 2018}}</ref>
<ref>{{cite web |last1=Davidson |first1=Tom |title=Root of the matter |url=https://www.sharonherald.com/community/root-of-the-matter/article_678d2ef5-4de8-5e95-a0e4-d61489192a10.html |website=The Herald |location=Sharon, PA |date=February 15, 2008}}</ref>
<ref>{{cite web |last1=Arpi |first1=Rich |title=Spike Shannon |url=https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/8c0483cc |publisher=Society for American Baseball Research |accessdate=March 10, 2020}}</ref>
<ref>{{cite web |last1=Bernstein |first1=Sam |title=Frank Smith |url=https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/bb6d2cab |publisher=Society for American Baseball Research |accessdate=March 10, 2020}}</ref>
<ref>{{cite news |title=Obituaries |url=https://newspaperarchive.com/franklin-news-herald-oct-26-1984-p-18/ |work=Franklin News Herald |date=October 26, 1984 |location=Franklin, PA |page=18}}</ref>
<ref>{{cite web |title=Announcement of Dr. R.C. Sproul Jr. to Rector & Chair of Philosophy and Theology |url=https://reformationbiblecollege.org/blog/announcement-of-dr-r-c-sproul-jr-to-rector-chair-of-philosophy-and-theology |publisher=Reformation Bible College |accessdate=March 10, 2020 |date=February 27, 2014}}</ref>
<ref>{{cite web |last1=Vachon |first1=Dana |title=The Code of the Winklevii |url=https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2011/12/winklevosses-201112 |website=Vanity Fair |accessdate=March 10, 2020 |date=November 3, 2011}}</ref>

Professors

<ref>{{cite web |last1=Mohler |first1=Albert |title=Media Ecology and the Modern Mind: A Conversation with T. David Gordon |url=https://albertmohler.com/2011/04/04/tip-temporary-title-david-gordon |website=AlbertMohler.com |publisher=Southern Baptist Theological Seminary |accessdate=March 10, 2020 |date=April 4, 2011}}</ref>
<ref>{{cite web |last1=Schmidt |first1=Peter |title=AAUP Rebukes Universities for Their Boards’ Actions |url=https://www.chronicle.com/article/AAUP-Rebukes-Universities-for/236863 |website=The Chronicle of Higher Education |accessdate=March 10, 2020 |date=June 19, 2016}}</ref>
<ref>{{cite web |last1=Schmitz |first1=Matthew |title=Elite evangelicals once again belittle their pro-Trump co-religionists |url=https://nypost.com/2019/12/20/elite-evangelicals-once-again-belittle-their-pro-trump-co-religionists/ |website=New York Post |accessdate=March 10, 2020 |date=December 20, 2019}}</ref>

Past presidents

Note: In addition to the sources listed below, the college's official website includes a succinct timeline of past presidents at http://www.gcc.edu/Home/Our-Story/History/Past-Presidents.

<ref>{{cite journal |title=Obituary |journal=The American Educational Review |date=1913 |volume=34 |issue=2 |page=570 |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=Yx4BAAAAYAAJ |publisher=American Educational Company}}</ref>
  • Alexander T. Ormond: in addition the the existing citation, this page
<ref>{{cite book |editor1-last=Shook |editor1-first=John R. |title=Dictionary of Modern American Philosophers |date=2005 |publisher=Bloomsbury Academic |isbn=9781843710370 |page=1846 |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=Ijpj1tB3Qr0C&pg=PA1846&lpg=PA1846}}</ref>
<ref>{{cite book |last1=Taaffee |first1=Stephen |editor1-last=Geiger |editor1-first=Roger |title=Shaping the American Faculty: Perspectives on the History of Higher Education |date=2017 |publisher=Taylor & Francis |isbn=9781351490986 |page=176 |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=VCAxDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT176 |chapter=5}}</ref>
<ref>{{cite web |last1=Petro |first1=Felicia |title=Tables turned as chamber surprises Eric Thomas |url=https://www.alliednews.com/news/tables-turned-as-chamber-surprises-eric-thomas/article_bda9d2dc-57da-5eb6-beac-58b90d70f80b.html |website=Allied News |accessdate=March 10, 2020 |location=Grove City, PA |date=January 24, 2017}}</ref>
<ref>{{cite news |last1=Langborgh |first1=Eric |title=The Less Traveled Path of Grove City College |url=https://www.academia.org/the-less-traveled-path-of-grove-city-college/ |work=Campus Report |publisher=Accuracy In Academia |date=February 2001}}</ref>
<ref>{{cite web |title=1995 Annual Local News Chronology |url=http://www2.sharonherald.com/localnews/chron/chron1995b.html |website=The Herald |accessdate=March 10, 2020 |location=Sharon, PA |date=January 1, 1996}}</ref>
<ref>{{cite web |title=Grove City College president Moore retiring |url=https://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/stories/2003/01/20/daily34.html |website=Pittsburgh Business Times |accessdate=March 10, 2020 |date=January 22, 2003}}</ref>
<ref>{{cite web |last1=Jaschik |first1=Scott |title=Grove City Apologizes to Professor It Fired in 1962 |url=https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2015/10/28/grove-city-apologizes-professor-it-fired-1962 |website=Inside Higher Ed |accessdate=March 10, 2020 |date=October 28, 2015}}</ref>

Thank you. -- DanielKlotz (talk · contribs) 21:21, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Reply 19-MAR-2020

   Unable to implement  

  • The request cannot be implemented because the <nowiki> formatting prompt has been used in the text. Please re-submit the request below with the nowiki formatting prompt removed.

Regards,  Spintendo  13:46, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Reformatted request

@Spintendo: Thank you. I had included the nowiki formatting in an effort to make it easier to highlight, copy, and paste. I have reformatted the request here with no nowiki formatting:

Edit request

Alumni

[1]
[2]
[3]
[4]
[5]
[6]
[7]
[8]
[9]
[10]
[11]
[12]
[13]
[14]
[15]
[16]
[17]
[18]

Professors

[19]
[20]
[21]

Past presidents

Note: In addition to the sources listed below, the college's official website includes a succinct timeline of past presidents at http://www.gcc.edu/Home/Our-Story/History/Past-Presidents.

[22]
  • Alexander T. Ormond: in addition the the existing citation, this page
[23]
[24]
[25]
[26]
[27]
[28]
[29]

References

  1. ^ DiStefano, Joseph (November 15, 2015). "Will CEO Ed Breen slash DuPont or grow it?". The Philadelphia Inquirer. Retrieved March 10, 2020.
  2. ^ Fang, Lee (August 9, 2017). "Sphere of Influence: How American Libertarians Are Remaking Latin American Politics". The Intercept. Retrieved March 10, 2020.
  3. ^ "Larry Critchfield". JustSportsStats.com. Retrieved March 10, 2020.
  4. ^ "Schwab, Arthur J." Federal Judicial Center. Retrieved March 10, 2020.
  5. ^ Barbara, Vancheri (April 16, 2010). "Film Notes: 'Dodo the Docu/Comedy' offers look at twisted family life". Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. Retrieved March 10, 2020.
  6. ^ "Biography - George Clark Southworth". Transactions of the IRE Professional Group on Microwave Theory and Techniques. 3 (1). Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers: 2. January 1955.
  7. ^ Masley, Ed (April 9, 1999). "Weekend Music: Optimistic frontman keeps the Gathering Field playing to win". Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. Retrieved March 10, 2020.
  8. ^ "Mose Lantz". JustSportsStats.com. Retrieved March 10, 2020.
  9. ^ Armour, Mark. "Gary Peters". Society for American Baseball Research. Retrieved March 10, 2020.
  10. ^ "Porter, David James". Federal Judicial Center. Retrieved March 10, 2020.
  11. ^ "Ranjan, J. Nicholas". Federal Judicial Center. Retrieved March 10, 2020.
  12. ^ McClallen, Scott (March 15, 2018). "Q&A: Foundation of Economic Education President Reed". The Hillsdale Collegian. Retrieved March 10, 2020.
  13. ^ Davidson, Tom (February 15, 2008). "Root of the matter". The Herald. Sharon, PA.
  14. ^ Arpi, Rich. "Spike Shannon". Society for American Baseball Research. Retrieved March 10, 2020.
  15. ^ Bernstein, Sam. "Frank Smith". Society for American Baseball Research. Retrieved March 10, 2020.
  16. ^ "Obituaries". Franklin News Herald. Franklin, PA. October 26, 1984. p. 18.
  17. ^ "Announcement of Dr. R.C. Sproul Jr. to Rector & Chair of Philosophy and Theology". Reformation Bible College. February 27, 2014. Retrieved March 10, 2020.
  18. ^ Vachon, Dana (November 3, 2011). "The Code of the Winklevii". Vanity Fair. Retrieved March 10, 2020.
  19. ^ Mohler, Albert (April 4, 2011). "Media Ecology and the Modern Mind: A Conversation with T. David Gordon". AlbertMohler.com. Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. Retrieved March 10, 2020.
  20. ^ Schmidt, Peter (June 19, 2016). "AAUP Rebukes Universities for Their Boards' Actions". The Chronicle of Higher Education. Retrieved March 10, 2020.
  21. ^ Schmitz, Matthew (December 20, 2019). "Elite evangelicals once again belittle their pro-Trump co-religionists". New York Post. Retrieved March 10, 2020.
  22. ^ "Obituary". The American Educational Review. 34 (2). American Educational Company: 570. 1913.
  23. ^ Shook, John R., ed. (2005). Dictionary of Modern American Philosophers. Bloomsbury Academic. p. 1846. ISBN 9781843710370.
  24. ^ Taaffee, Stephen (2017). "5". In Geiger, Roger (ed.). Shaping the American Faculty: Perspectives on the History of Higher Education. Taylor & Francis. p. 176. ISBN 9781351490986.
  25. ^ Petro, Felicia (January 24, 2017). "Tables turned as chamber surprises Eric Thomas". Allied News. Grove City, PA. Retrieved March 10, 2020.
  26. ^ Langborgh, Eric (February 2001). "The Less Traveled Path of Grove City College". Campus Report. Accuracy In Academia.
  27. ^ "1995 Annual Local News Chronology". The Herald. Sharon, PA. January 1, 1996. Retrieved March 10, 2020.
  28. ^ "Grove City College president Moore retiring". Pittsburgh Business Times. January 22, 2003. Retrieved March 10, 2020.
  29. ^ Jaschik, Scott (October 28, 2015). "Grove City Apologizes to Professor It Fired in 1962". Inside Higher Ed. Retrieved March 10, 2020.

-- DanielKlotz (talk · contribs) 19:56, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Please provide the Wikilinks for these notable alumni which contain them. For some reason, their Wikilinks were not carried over to the request. As Wikipedia is a volunteer project, edit requests are generally expected to have this formatting done before the request is submitted for review.[a] Regards,  Spintendo  21:51, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Notes

  1. ^ If the purpose of providing these references was merely to satisfy the BLP sources template, that was not necessary -- as the template may already be removed due to the sourcing requirements for that section being handled by WP:ALUMNI and WP:SOURCELIST -- which the section already meets.
@Spintendo: Thank you. I would have included the existing content in my edit request, with my edits added, but I was trying to learn from your instruction on another request that referred to the existing text of an article in the Wikipedia mainspace as "source material" subject to WP:CLOSEPARAPHRASE. So that I can make life easier for volunteers in the future, are you saying that it's OK to include the existing content in my edit request if I'm simply adding references, or what's the distinguishing line of when it is and isn't acceptable to include the current content in an edit request? I have been unable to find direction, guidelines, or policy on that point. For what it's worth, I did not understand WP:ALUMNI to be a relevant guideline for this article since that advice is from WikiProject Schools (which covers K-12 schools in America), whereas this article falls under WikiProject Higher Education, which does not provide equivalent guidance in the relevant section of its article guidelines. Thank you again for your review and work on this edit request. -- DanielKlotz (talk · contribs) 14:24, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
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