Talk:Gjergj Arianiti

Question from User talk:Mihail ioniu

Sorry for doing this, but I don't know how to ask my fellow coleagues from wikipedia for info about the familly of this important Albanian hero (Gjergj Arianit Komneni). If their is other way please, help me. Thank you. m.i.

(This was the original content of the article) Cje 09:22, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

"Albanian hero"

Unresolved

What makes a person an "Albanian hero"? Did George Arianitis declare that he was Albanian? His official name, as it appears in serious bibliography, is "George Arianites Komnenos (Golem)". See this: Theodore Spandounes, On the origins of the Ottoman Emperors. Cambridge University Press, 1997.
Also this:Peter Bartl, Albanien. Vom Mittelalter bis zur Gegenwart. Januar 1995 , Pustet, Friedrich, Verlag | ISBN: 3791714511 where is refered to as "Georg Arianiti". It seems that the albanised "Gjergj" is used in local Albanian literature.Kentavros (talk)

He was from Kanina and is referred to as an Albanian leader by Harry Hodgkinson several times throughout his book. He was the most prominent Albanian leader among the Tosks. His relation with the Byzantines is small since he descended from a junior branch of the Comnena dynasty. His name is written in the Albanian form since he was an Albanian. Most authors of the past either Latinized a non-Latin name, or just translated it to their own language. --Gaius Claudius Nero (talk) 01:47, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

I think that Kentavros is right when stating that there are no suitable referenced source supporting claim that George Arianites Komnenos declared himself as Albanian and that maybe title of the article should be renamed.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 11:41, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Since when this new rule of autodeclaration of ethnicity from historical figures?! His family is defined as Albanian here and here he himself here and here. Stop trolling around. Aigest (talk) 13:13, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

I did not see in 3 links that you provided (with text on english language) that Komnenos declared himself as Albanian, or that anybody claim that he was ethnic Albanian. I don't know what does it mean autodeclaration of ethnicity? In medieval times there were Serbians, Bulgarians, Venetians, Greeks.... that controled territory and people that were considered as Albania and Albanians. Also, there are many examples of other nations led by someone who is not ethnically same nation (Russian queen Katarina Great was not Russian but German, many English kings were French and vice versa, Albanian prince Wilhelm of Wied was not Albanina but German.....). It would be wrong to state that Wilhelm of Wied was Albanian because some historian wrote that he was Albanian prince. Same is valid for Komnenos. Are you able to find sources that support your claim that he was ethnic Albanian? --Antidiskriminator (talk) 14:20, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Antidiskriminator please read Aigest's sources and don't make or deductions. Btw his full name is Gjergj Arianit Komnen Golem Thopia.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 19:07, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

I have red Aigest's sources. One source is google search result, second is on german and I can not understand it, third and fourth do not mention George's ethnicity. If I am wrong, please provide inline citations. Please double check on that because George is not typical Albanian name. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 21:05, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

You could at least use Google Translate.--Gaius Claudius Nero (talk) 21:21, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for advice. I tried, but it does not work. I guess that problem is that text is in format that google translator does not recognize as text. Am I right? --Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:46, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Magnifico viro Golemi Arenit Cominovich, fideli et devoto nostro dilecto. ..... Auffallend ist hier die slavische Namensform Golem Arianit Komnenovic.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 20:48, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Problematic edit

This edit is entirely unferenced. I asked Mdupont to reference it in his talk page. It claims way too much. --Sulmues ^(talk) 22:06, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Clarify please

Unresolved

During the fall of 1443 and the winter of 1444 Arianiti led an army deep into Macedonia.

What was he doing in Macedonia in 1443? Nobody makes incursion into enemy territory just for fun. If his army participated in some battle, that should be explained. If his army was robbing Macedonians, it should also be explained. If this is mistake, then it should be deleted because readers could be mislead to believe that he participated in some battle or robbed Macedonians.

When Krujë was besieged by the Turks, the sixty seven year old Gjergj Arianiti fought fiercely against the Turks.

If he was 67 during the Siege of Krujë that means that he was born in 1383? That information should be added to the lede. That would also mean that he was 79 when Ottomans entered Sopoti in 1462. If he died after Ottoman forces captured Sopot that should also be added to the lede.

The Ottomans soon entered the castle, and in revenge for the defeats they had suffered, the entire population was massacred.

This is article about Arianiti. What happened to him after Sopoti was captured by Ottoman forces? Was he also massacred with the rest of population?--Antidiskriminator (talk) 09:10, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Edit war

I see there is dispute about one information about the name of Gjergj Arianiti described in work of Oliver Schmitt, the original edition on German language. I propose to avoid removal of referenced information and to follow procedures described in Wikipedia:Dispute resolution.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 20:30, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Antid. Gaius has the book and Euzen was misrepresenting it.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 11:38, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

If I understood well, Gaius have Albanian translation of the original edition on German language used by Euzen.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 11:42, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Golem Araniti Komninovic (Schmitt Jens Oliver, Skanderbeg Das Neue Alexander auf dem Balkan, 2008, p. 131) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Euzen (talk • contribs) 10:35, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Golem Araniti Komninovic? This must the most fringe part of Schmitt's work I've encountered so far, not to mention that he's the only to even use such a form. Btw what Euzen is attributing to Schmitt is a complete misrepresentation of the source since it merely mentions that this particular form ("Komninovic") is the Slavic counterpart of Komnenos/o/i.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 12:45, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Copyvio?

A big part of the text of the article is copy of the text written by Robert Elsie and published here. The author of the text wrote: The texts of all articles and books which can be downloaded here may be copied for private use if the author and source are properly acknowledged. I am not sure that in this case we can talk about "private use"?--Antidiskriminator (talk) 23:37, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Komnenos ancestry

What was his link to the Komnenoi?--Zoupan 13:11, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

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Sources

I was verifying some edits and I found that a quote from Fine's The Late Medieval Balkans has been cited as In 1432 Andrew Thopia revolted against his Ottoman overlords ... inspired other Albanian chiefs, in particular George Aryaniti This is bizarre rendering, so I checked the original citation. Fine writes In 1432 Andrew Thopia revolted against his Ottoman overlords inspired other Albanian chiefs, in particular George Arianite (Arianiti). My experience tells me that more bad use of bibliography should be expected in the article. I've tagged it for verification.--Maleschreiber (talk) 11:23, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

Unexplained move

Page was moved without consesnsus or any justification. Attempted to move back but blocked by a redirect created by the user. Should be moved back to Gjergj Arianiti, with an i at the end. Djks1 (talk)

@Djks1: Can you start a move discussion? --Maleschreiber (talk) 18:34, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

Moving back to Gjergj Arianiti

Requested move 24 September 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (non-admin closure) Vpab15 (talk) 16:31, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

---

Gjergj Arianit → Gjergj Arianiti – Most commonly used name.
Google books results:

• Gjergj Arianiti, 1790 results
• Gjergj Arianiti -Komneni, 1770 results
• Gjergj Arianit, 250 results
• Gjergj Arianiti -Komneni, 200 results
• Gjergj Arianit Komneni, 239 results
• Gjergj Arianiti Komneni, 0 results
• George Aryanit, 0 results
• George Aryaniti, 235 results

Therefore, my proposal is that the page be moved back to Gjergj Arianiti, which was the name of the article until a user unilaterally moved it to George Aryaniti. Djks1 (talk) 18:59, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

• Support per nomination.--Maleschreiber (talk) 22:30, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
• Support per nom. The stats are compelling. Narky Blert (talk) 14:30, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
• Support per nomination. Bes-ARTTalk 10:00, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.