Talk:Eurasian otter

Things needed

Information on size and lifespan etc should be added to the page

Under conservation there should be some mention of the role of pollutants especially PCB's in the decline of European otter populations 1950s-80's and the partial recovery following bans on PCB's in European countries. See 'Decline and Recovery in otter Lutra lutra populations in Italy, Claudi Prigioni, Alssandro Balestrieri and Luigi Remonti, 2007 Mammal Review 37 (1) pp71-79' and the references from that paper.

I have added some better info on conservation and more references, mainly UK centric I'm afraid but an improvement on the previous version.

Are they in the U.K.?

Why are they not shown on the range map?

Name of species (and article)

Is there a source for using "European" otter as the name for this species in English? It may be the only otter in Europe, but it's an odd name for a species also occurring in North Africa and all the way to Japan... It is in widespread use, but is by no means the only name by which the animal is known.

The alternative names given in the article are Eurasian River Otter, Common Otter, and Old World Otter (in practice in the British Isles it's most commonly just called "otter"). All of these also seem unsatisfactory – it's not just found in rivers, it's not always common, and there are many other otters in the Old World.

"Eurasian otter" seems to be a very widely used name, which avoids most (all?) of these problems.

If the use of "European otter" has not been assigned formally (which I don't think it has), I suggest that the name of this article is changed to "Eurasian otter" – unless someone can come up with something better?--Richard New Forest 22:13, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

No comments for several weeks, so move done & rename tag removed. Redirect pages corrected, and name corrected in Otter.--Richard New Forest (talk) 21:21, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

The name of the article has just been changed back to "European otter", without discussion. In the light of the points I made above, this seems strange... Can we now discuss please. Richard New Forest (talk) 16:44, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

See discussion below, and at User talk:Tombstone#Eurasian badger, Eurasian otter. Richard New Forest (talk) 09:50, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

RfC regarding common name

For standardization, I have been moving WP mammal articles to correspond with the the common name used by MSW3 (Lutra lutra), which is the most used source used by Wikipedia: WikiProject Mammals. Another source extensively used throughout WP is IUCN (Lutra lutra). For this species, MSW3 list no alternate name for Lutra lutra, only "European Otter". However, IUCN lists BOTH "European Otter" and "Eurasian Otter" as the common name. For standardization, I am proposing using the MSW3 common name of "European Otter", although I have no qualms about abandoning that preference if either MSW3 is incorrect or if common usage has changed since the last edition of MSW. As per an above post, another editor has expressed disagreement with this, so I have opened an RfC. --Tombstone (talk) 07:51, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

The MSW3 name would be a good one to use – if it were not clearly wrong. The species occurs the full length of Europe and Asia, with subspecies in, for example, India and China. The use of "European otter" for the species leads to "the Chinese subspecies of the European otter" and similar nonsense. Use of "European" for a Eurasian species is surely Anglo-centricism (see WP:BIAS), and I cannot see how it is justified.

While MSW3 is a good starting point for a common English name, we are not obliged to use it, and the IUCN is a perfectly good alternative source. "Eurasian" is also more likely to align with wikis in other languages. Richard New Forest (talk) 09:50, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Since the species occurs in a considerable part of Asia, "Eurasian Otter" should most likely be preferred if "European Otter" is not much more widely used in scientific sources. --Novil Ariandis (talk) 14:46, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Google Scholar finds ~710 hits for "European Otter" and ~666 for "Eurasian Otter". - UtherSRG (talk) 20:06, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

MSW3 says this about the common names selected: "Unlike previous editions, we have provided a common name for each recognized species. The starting point for these names is Wilson and Cole (2000), but each author was encouraged to examine those names and to provide a different one if there was good reason to do so. Thus, this list can be viewed as a second edition of Wilson and Cole (2000). There are no rules governing vernacular names, but Wilson and Cole (2000) outlined several reasons for adopting a single such name for each species of mammal." It is obvious that mammalogists are still refining the list. While we are not obligated to use MSW3 for common names, we should consider them as more official than any other listing of common names for mammals. - UtherSRG (talk) 20:14, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

imo, MSW3 is a good standard, but they're off on this one. i seriously think there should be a wait-and-see position taken on this; "Eurasian" is simply the most factually accurate description when taking into consideration the range of these species, whatever the Bible for Mammals might say at this moment in time. i also think that Richard (above) has a practical when considering other wiki projects. - Μετανοιδ (talk, email) 03:43, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Are we anywhere near a consensus on this? To summarise the above:

• The species occurs throughout Europe and across Asia.
• MSW3 says "European", and IUCN says both "European" and "Eurasian": both are acceptable WP sources. It is suggested that the former is "more official" than other listings; we are not however restricted to one or the other.
• Google has more hits for "European" than "Eurasian" (though perhaps this just reflects the locations of English language sources).

To me, there seems to be a strong argument for "Eurasian" and only weak ones for "European". Can anyone come up with a stronger argument for "European"? If not, I suggest we go for "Eurasian". Richard New Forest (talk) 15:00, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Comment The common English name for this species is Otter. I understand that Scientists use the name Otter to refer to the whole Lutrinae sub-family, including the otter and it's three American relatives and why they then have to come up with an adjective to distinguish the species from the sub-family and if we are being scientific about it then Eurasian seems more accurate just so long as you never forget that the common name for this animal in English is the Otter. Can you come up with a way to put that in the article?Filceolaire (talk) 23:25, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Missing data

Typical size and weight are missing. David.Monniaux (talk) 22:07, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Auto writes. One suggested (possible, no more) explanation of the 1930s sightings of the Loch Ness Monster is an anomalously big otter [UK]. This may be a creature that approached - or, possibly, exceeded - the quoted 24 Kg. maximum. Maybe. Auto wrote - 86.176.213.205 (talk) 21:14, 12 November 2017 (UTC) 2115Z 12 November 2017.

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Requested move 1 July 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved as unopposed, and per the thorough nom. Seeing that the same proposal has been discussed for years, virtually without counter-arguments, I think it's about time to do it, and I don't see a point in relisting. No such user (talk) 14:38, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

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European otter → Eurasian otter – I think it's time to revisit this. Especially as more work is done on non-European populations, there's evidence that "Eurasian otter" is now the more common name:

• "Eurasian otter" is more common on Google News ([1] vs. [2] and Google Scholar ([3] vs. [4]. "European" still has the edge on Google Books, but searches of 21st century books show the gap has narrowed.([5] vs. [6].
• "Eurasian otter" is more common on JSTOR in works published since 1990 ([7] vs. [8], and a search at my (non-Eurasian) university library found similar results.
• Additionally, there's something of an WP:ENGVAR issue considering that this otter is also found in India and discussed in Indian English-language sources.[9][10][11][12] These rarely use "European otter" and it would probably be a bit confusing. However, "Eurasian otter" is well established in European sources, [13][14][15] so it's a good point of WP:COMMONALITY between Indian and British & Irish varieties.
• Finally, while "European otter" is still in wide use, especially in works on European populations, "Eurasian otter" is a substantially more intuitive name considering that this otter occurs widely throughout Asia. Cúchullain ^t/c 18:59, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

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Factual errors regarding distribution

Eurasian otter#Distribution and habitat says "in the western regions of Spain and Portugal", but the cited source does not seem to confirm. --NGC 54 (talk｜contribs) 01:27, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

"Though currently thought to be extinct in Liechtenstein and Switzerland" – but the cited source (whether https://www.iucnredlist.org/species/12419/164578163 or https://www.iucnredlist.org/species/12419/218069689) says something else. --NGC 54 (talk｜contribs) 11:54, 9 March 2023 (UTC)