Talk:Ethel Pye

Death details

If this death notice and Find a Grave entry are for the same person, it looks like Ms. Pye moved to New South Wales later in life. Nick Number (talk) 19:27, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Hmm. Good find. I wonder. --Tagishsimon (talk) 02:36, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

I found that Find a Grave entry but it says 75 years old, while Ethel Pye was 78 years old. It is also true there was not notice in the Gazzette of her death, therefore it could be she moved out of England. --Elisa.rolle (talk) 07:44, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

@Oronsay: Might you have familiarity with any resources which might link (or confirm the lack of link) between this death notice and our sculptor? Long-shot, obvs. --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:09, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Although I'm thinking not; quite a lot of Pyes in Parramatta afaics, including, I think, an Ethel Mary who was married in 1912, which would not do at all - https://www.google.com/search?q=parramatta+ethel+pye

I just checked NSW BDM. The Ethel Mary Pye who died at Parramatta in 1960 was the daughter of James Andrew and Margaret Pye – so the father is not correct. --Oronsay (talk) 18:50, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Oronsay; your looking much appreciated :) -Tagishsimon (talk) 19:07, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Just found her on Ancestry in 1891 Census, where her name was given as Margaret E, living in Daleham Gardens, Hampstead with parents and siblings. Baptised on 24 Apr 1881, St John's Wood All Saints, again Ancestry. Could you search UK records for her as Margaret Ethel or Ethel Margaret? --Oronsay (talk) 19:32, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

I'm afraid I don't, as far as I know, have access to any useful genealogical sites :( --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:50, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

I have yet to find a record of her probate, but it's interesting that her sister - Anna Sybilla Pye - left her estate to her nephew, David William Pye, Probate 1958 not to Ethel, although they shared the cottage at Newick. By the way, the probate gives date of death for Sybil, missing from bio. This suggests to me that Ethel had predeceased her. --Oronsay (talk) 21:09, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

I have found her, shown as Margaret Ethel Pye, art student, in the 1911 Census, living with father (listed as married but wife must have been away) and sister, Sybil. I also found a death record for Margaret E. Pye, Cuckfield, Sussex (9 miles from Newick) for 1955 and age matches. But no corresponding probate discovered, no success searching for her grave or that of sister Sybil. --Oronsay (talk) 21:47, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

That's amazing. Good sleuthing. !960 was always a questionable date - a supposition from Glasgow, a ? from British Library. Not sure where our "Mary' comes from - @Elisa.rolle: added it in this diff. Her sister is Edith Mary. Fascinating, too, the Anna Sybilla -> Sybil. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:33, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

• @Tagishsimon: my fault, I saw a M. in some source and then I saw the Mary in the preview of the Oxford DB entry but that was her sister, Edith.Elisa.rolle (talk) 07:28, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Cuckfield Hospital might explain why Cuckfield rather than Newick. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:44, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

I have been bold, and changed her name in the article to Margaret Ethel. I've left the headline DoD as 1960, and added a note to cover the 1955 date - do you have a more exact date?. We have reliable sources for the 1960 date, even if we think it is wrong. WP:OR counsels against us asserting that our 1955 date is correct. However I hope the note is useful to readers.

I've removed 'Mary' altogether ... we need a source for that name to reintroduce it.

Happy to see my changes amended or reverted if you have different views as to how we should handle this stuff. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Society of Friends

We could do with more on her affiliation with the SoF. --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:19, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Here's her sculpture in the Friends library. --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:55, 16 August 2020 (UTC)