Talk:Ellie Soutter

Cause of death

It sounds like it was suicide. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2D80:442D:8408:C9AC:5B8B:FB1C:B723 (talk) 23:03, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

One of the two references cited in the article on the cause of death relies on reports by MailOnline, which is not a reliable source. The other, The Times, might also rely on the same source, but it is behind a paywall, so I can't be sure. In any case, I can't see any other reliable sources reporting the cause of death yet, so perhaps we should be cautious and wait for further reports? JezGrove (talk) 23:18, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

It has now also been mentioned in a BBC NEWS article about "... her ending her life ...". BBC NEWS is well regarded as a reliable source. Here it is - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-45023187. Helper201 (talk) 22:43, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

"Committed suicide" is the usual form of expression in Britain. However, I understand that, as it is not a crime, some have objections to using the term. Why not use "...killed herself"? But, in any case, can we have a discussion about it, rather than a continual process of reverting and unreverting? Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:59, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

"Commit" does not imply a crime - it can also mean " to pledge or bind ... by some decisive act ..." - so I support "committed suicide". (It has the advantage over "killed herself" that "suicide" is unambiguously intentional, whereas "killed herself" is not.) An alternative would simply be "suicided". Mitch Ames (talk) 11:01, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

This debate happens too agonisingly often. People commit to each other in marriage. It does NOT mean a crime. Might tackle the MOS on this. HiLo48 (talk) 11:29, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

People do indeed make a commitment to each other in marriage. They do not however commit marriage. Jdee4 (talk) 15:05, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

Structure

Should we separate some of the Life section, including info about early life and education from Breton and French, and information about her struggles finding sponsors during the 2018 circuit season and commitment to daily training in a section on snowboard career, as well as the different disciplines she competed in and being tipped for 2020. This information is widely available in news sources. 85.255.237.230 (talk) 12:40, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

Summer in New Zealand?

This is confusing. The article says "She spent the majority of the summer of 2018 training in New Zealand." So, unfortunately, does the source. Was she in NZ in THEIR summer? Or the northern hemisphere summer? (They are not the same.)

I am guessing, that as a snowboarder, she was in NZ in their winter, the northern hemisphere summer. If I'm right, that line should say ""She spent the majority of the northern hemisphere summer of 2018 training in New Zealand. But then, that summer is nowhere near over yet, is it?

When was she really in New Zealand? HiLo48 (talk) 10:06, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

Maybe reword to "In 2018, Soutter spent several months training in New Zealand"? Thsmi002 (talk) 11:49, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

But how long WAS she there? If it was New Zealand's winter, it's only been going for two months so far, and she was in France last week when she died, so it's less than two months. Hence my comment about being confused. MOS:SEASON tells us to "Avoid the use of seasons to refer to a particular time of year...." This is a perfect example of why that's good advice. HiLo48 (talk) 11:54, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

I see the confusion. My suggestion eliminated the use of the word "summer". Thsmi002 (talk) 12:04, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

I agree, its probably best to just leave out the time of the year. The sentence doesn't appear to be of significant importance to the overall article either way. Helper201 (talk) 19:18, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

Snowboarding is inherently a winter sport - it's hard to find snow in summer - so the season is relevant. I suspect that she moved between hemispheres following the cold weather. The cited reference says she "spent winters on the Junior Freeride Tour and the SBX Europa Cup circuit and travelled to New Zealand in the summer - to continue training", which doesn't help much. I agree with Helper201 that the best solution is to delete the entire sentence, because it doesn't add enough value to the article to justify the confusion. Mitch Ames (talk) 00:26, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

The reference to a "summer" only works together with the one about "winter" in the original article, both are in northern hemisphere terms, and that has gotten lost in the partial transfer of information over to Wikipedia. Deleting the sentence makes sense. Eesn (talk) 11:33, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

This edit removes "summer", but is not supported by the reference which doesn't actually say which summer(s) she trained in NZ. It says she "spent winters [plural, unspecified years] on the Junior Freeride Tour and the SBX Europa Cup circuit and travelled to New Zealand in the summer [singular, no year specified] - to continue training".

@Thsmi002: are you particularly keen to keep the sentence, or are you happy for us to delete it? Mitch Ames (talk) 07:19, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

I think it's important to keep some mention of training in New Zealand, because it shows how serious here commitment was. HiLo48 (talk) 07:55, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

I think it is worth keeping a mention that she was sending time training in NZ. The whole career section needs expanding with that just being what she was doing most recently. Thsmi002 (talk) 15:14, 5 August 2018 (UTC)