Talk:Eliot Sumner

Difficult to Read or Understand

This article is painful to read with its tortured use of multiple-person pronouns to describe a single person. Is this person suffering from multiple personality disorder? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.191.65.58 (talk) 17:13, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

Useful links to think about:

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Gender_identity
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Gender-neutral_language#Pronouns
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spivak_pronoun
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Archive_149#RFC_-_is_Identity_a_style_issue_or_a_content_issue.3F

ForbiddenRocky (talk) 20:40, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

FWIW, I'd go with Spivak pronouns (with a footnote explaining the usage), until such time as Sumner specifies a preferred pronoun. ForbiddenRocky (talk) 20:47, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

Sumner has given no preference or what-have-you, and the source that establishes her gender identity uses feminine pronouns, so I see no reason yet to make any change. Forcing a less binary pronoun on her is still a form of misgendering. Let's just wait, see, and follow the sources. Has she said anything on the topic on social media? ~Mable (chat) 12:36, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

She did address it in an interview: "When asked if she’d prefer the pronoun “they” to “she,” she responds nonchalantly, “call me how you call me.”" (http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/06/eliot-sumner-vaal-c-v-r.html) --2600:1008:B00A:1E1B:5980:1AD4:B2A9:E1B9 (talk) 12:16, 11 January 2017 (UTC)

Exactly, the original source, London Evening Standard, that establishes her sexuality or sexual preference uses feminine pronouns. Eliot Sumner never asked for the use of term 'they', yet some posters still continue to vandalize the topic. From what I recall from the interview 4 years ago, she doesn't want to be labelled about her gender identity or sexual preferences. Lets keep what was set in the original interview. The rest is vandalism and dishonesty. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mitzaki (talk • contribs) 07:52, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

Why is she listed with 'People with non-binary gender identities'?

She has never spoken to herself as non-binary. Based on the interview she had with the London Evening Standard it seems she just does not believe in labels. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.78.155.8 (talk) 13:59, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

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Privacy

Let us please respect Miss Sumner's privacy by avoiding speculation about her personal life. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia, not a gossip column. Don't act like journalists. This isn't a newspaper or a TV show.
Vmavanti (talk) 17:57, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Pronouns

Seeing recent edits to the pronouns, I have tried to find sources for which pronouns Sumner prefers. I found this saying When asked if she’d prefer the pronoun “they” to “she,” she responds nonchalantly, “call me how you call me.” (This and this also say Sumner has no preference.) If Sumner has no preference, one could perhaps take a PRESERVE-type approach, not changing things without reason (media articles from this year seem to still be using she), although I have no objection to switching to singular they pronouns (and have for now at least made the article consistent in using them, since the IP only changed some of the pronouns). But not all non-binary people use singular they pronouns, it's not automatic; Rebecca Sugar and Rose McGowan are others who use she (while Emma Sulkowicz, Jill Soloway and River Butcher are examples of people who use they). -sche (talk) 02:15, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

I've also rewritten several sentences to not need pronouns at all, by saying things like "at age 17" instead of "when she was 17". -sche (talk) 03:03, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

Mrs. Eliot Sumner never asked for the use of term 'they' and that's enough not to use. In the original interview, on the London Evening Standard, where she talked about her sexuality, gender expression and sexual preferences for first time, uses feminine pronouns. Here the original source: https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/esmagazine/i-don-t-identify-as-any-specific-gender-but-i-m-very-happy-the-way-i-am-a3128886.html . So, forcing a less binary pronoun 'they' on her is still a form of misgendering and misunderstanding her. Rereading the interview, from 4 years ago, shows that Mrs. Eliot Sumner doesn't want to be labelled about her gender identity, sexuality or sexual preferences, also she didn't ask about neutral pronouns. Until she comes to the public to clarify more about it lets keep what was set in the original source - the interview where Sumner talked about her personal life and where feminine pronouns 'her' and 'she' were used with her total consent. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia so let's follow the original sources, until the present moment, Mrs. Eliot Sumner never asked for the use of the term 'they'. Changes in the structure of the article without the presentation of sources is an act of vandalism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mitzaki (talk • contribs) 08:58, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

Has Mrs. Eliot Sumner specified the preference for the term 'child' rather than 'daughter'? I did not find any source and if there is not a specific source about it so there's no reason to change the structure of article. While it is admirable the use of modern gender terms for the contemporary gender expressions, however, the terms due their recent usage should be used when required oficially by the person in question. Sumner has never required publicly the use of neutral gender terms to define her gender expression and sexual orientation. Oficially Mrs. Eliot Sumner did address it in an interview: when asked if she’d prefer the pronoun “they” to “she,” she responds nonchalantly, “call me how you call me”" and the source where she establishes it uses feminine pronouns and the word daughter. Source: https://www.thecut.com/2016/06/eliot-sumner-vaal-c-v-r.html And in the original interview, on the London Evening Standard, where she talked about her sexuality, gender expression and sexual preferences for the first time, also uses feminine pronouns and the word daughter. Here the original source: https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/esmagazine/i-don-t-identify-as-any-specific-gender-but-i-m-very-happy-the-way-i-am-a3128886.html In her most recent interview, dated January 19, 2019. Establishes the use of feminine pronouns with Sumner's consent. Source: https://i-d.vice.com/en_uk/article/439zwj/10-things-you-need-to-know-about-eliot-sumners-new-techno-project-vaal Sincerely I see your action as a form of vandalism rather than someone following the sources. Until Mrs. Eliot Sumner comes to the public to clarify more about it or oficially requiring the use of neutral gender terms, let's keep how it is and following current sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mitzaki (talk • contribs) 22:23, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

Media pronoun consensus

I see that edits are occasionally being made where Eliot's pronouns are changed from "they" to either "she" or "it." The last such edit has been thankfully reverted but I would just like to add that there is a very clear consensus in recent media articles to refer to Eliot as "they" or "he," examples being: https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/entertainment/a60405255/who-plays-freddie-netflix-ripley/ https://screenrant.com/eliot-sumner-ripley-the-gentlemen-character-deaths/ https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/04/05/non-binary-child-sting-eliot-sumner-netflix-ripley/ https://www.netflix.com/tudum/articles/eliot-sumner-ripley-interview (the only example I can find where "he" is used) The use of the "they" pronoun for Eliot in this article should therefore remain unchanged. SophiedeGrouchy (talk) 16:21, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

Not that it is difinitive, but I just read an interview with Steven Zaillian about casting Sumner in Ripley and Zaillian used the pronoun "he" in reference to Sumner. I would be surprised if Zallian got it wrong. 47.54.105.16 (talk) 03:36, 9 August 2024 (UTC)