Talk:Elephant Man (musician)

LGBT rights opposition category

Until someone puts an addition into the article explaining it, I feel the inclusion of this article in the 'LGBT rights opposition' category will have to be removed. Feel free to return it, with an appropriate addition to the article. Cometboy 20:40, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Hmm...where do you start?

log on and step pon chi chi man

The gay human rights group OutRage! is urging the Metropolitan Police to bring hate crime charges against Elephant Man, Bounty Killer and Beenie Man – all of whom are nominated for a MOBO Award in the category "Best Reggae Act".

Nah support no chi chi and we nah support no raper.

Shoot yourself elephant homophobe man

Arrest Anti-Gay Rappers, Music Cos. Activist Demands

etc. Guettarda 22:45, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for adding the section to the article. That clears it up. Add something to the Bounty Killer page too, if you would. Cometboy 06:31, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

The term chi-chi man does not necessarily mean gay man, and it literaly translates to mean "termite-man". The term can be used for any undesirable person, particularly a sexual deviant such as a child molestor or rapist. That Outrage! has seized on this word as meaning strictly 'gay' in their crusade against dancehall artists means that they either didnt do proper research, or they intentionally distorted the meaning.

07:01, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

And "batty man"? "We say de fire make we bun dem"? That's pretty unambiguous. You're taking one specific quote and saying all of what he said is ambiguous. I rather doubt Elephant Man would disagree with the gist of what the article said. Guettarda 12:05, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

What I’m saying is that the extent to which artists like Elephant Man supposedly incite violence against gay people is being grossly exaggerated. In Jamaican culture terms like "fire" and "burn" are metaphorical meaning like a spiritual fire; they don't actually mean setting someone on fire. As for "battyman" being unambiguous, think of how often terms like "faggot" are used in American culture without actually referring literally to a gay person. Terms like this are used in rap music, and groups like Outrage! haven't branded it as "hate music." 19:09, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

So you are saying that prominent rap musicians call for the killing of gays? You are saying that calling for the murder or maiming of someone in a metaphorical sense is ok, despite the fact that it is done in a literal sense? I don't understand your point. "Kill gays" isn't just a metaphor. Guettarda 20:26, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm saying that homophobic language doesn't necessarily equate with homophobic violence. Expressing disaproval of homosexuality, or using a term like "battyman", which may or may not even be used to refer to a gay person, and promoting violence are very different things. In fact, I can think of very few examples of dancehall artists actually saying expressly to "kill gays." In the Jamaican context, terms like "fire" and "burn" refer to a spiritual fire which one will experience in the afterlife or on the "day of judgement," there's basically no implication of actually burning someone; therefore, a term like "fire burn" isn't killing or maiming someone in a metaphorical sense anymore than telling someone to "go to hell" is. Violence is frequently invoked in dancehall in a way thats widely understood to be symbolic. Competing aritists and sound systems speak of "killing" their competition. Violent language in dancehall music is easily misunderstood outside of its cultural context. What i'm saying is that Outrage 's tactic of trying to ban songs and musicians was somewhat shallow and irresponsible. Their energies could have been better directed toward the root social causes, such as the fact that homosexuality is illegal in Jamaica as it is in many other countries, making dancehall artists' expressions of homophobia concurrent with the mainstream opinion there. In any event, I think its absurd to claim that artists like Elephant Man "call for" the killing of gays.

18:43, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

What? Musician? I thought he was defor...oh, wait

I realize that the name of this musician is "Elephant Man" or whatever...but even the disambiguation page says "Elephant Man" usually refers to Joseph Merrick, the Elephant Man. Shouldn't "Elephant Man" direct me to Merrick's page or the disambiguation page, instead of this article, since people will "usually" be searching for the guy with the deformity? 152.23.196.162 01:55, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

From where did you get redirected? number29^(Talk) 18:58, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Forgot to leave a note here, but I fixed those redirects a few days ago. Both Elephant man and The Elephant Man should redirect to Joseph Merrick. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 19:07, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

It seems as though someone has since altered it back. I typed in "Elephant Man" on the front page only to be brought here. No disrespect (even though this person sounds like a prick) but Merrick and his moniker of The Elephant Man should take you here to the relevant page. It seems fanboys are undermining this website yet again. 195.92.168.165 23:02, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

It seems that these people are trying to tarnish a great musician name by saying he is inflicting or suggesting the killing of all "battyman" gay people. I used the word alot and so does many others and that does not mean we go out and inflict any pain or any manner of way onto these people. the fact is that they stay in thier culture if they dont understand ours. do you ever hear the jamaican coming out say you are steriotying us by saying we live in tree, or hut and so forth. It is just that battymanism is illegal in jamaica and so many other country.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I'd just like to say that the person who wrote the last paragraph is a complete moron. First off, Elephant Man is NOT a great musician. He's not even a musician! Yelling out of tune into a mic is not a talent. Although he may not be going out and killing gay people (I wouldn't put it past him though) he is still very openly homophobic and calls for all gays to be murdered. Now you're going to tell me you don't see anything wrong with that??? You and your friends can be bigots all you want, that doesn't make it right. So by your logic it's okay for me to call black people niggers and coons, and preach that they should all be murdered as long as I'm not murdering them myself?!? Screw you and screw Elephant Man. (The shitty dancehall "artist").

"Murder" section

I propose that the "Murder" section of "Controversy" be deleted. It was his brother who did it, and he supposedly did not speak about it. Isn't that the safest thing to do? I wouldn't speak about it...

Tezkag72 (talk) 00:31, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

You're right. I removed it. -Roger (talk) 00:38, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Cleanup

Does any of the above still need to be cleaned up? Aside from the "Controversy" section being unbalanced or unbalancing the article, does anything else need to be cleaned up? Hyacinth (talk) 23:26, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

British wanting to arrest him

If he's Jamaican, and not British in any way, how come "an agreement with gay rights groups in the U.K. has allowed him to remain free" from being arrested by the British for violating UK hate crimes laws?

Last time I checked, Jamaica was a sovereign nation. Are those sneaky Brits trying to take back their former colony? I'm an American and we believe strongly in free speech, so I can only shake my head.

And that is to say nothing of the fact that the British have gotten such big heads that they now think they can arrest CITIZENS OF OTHER COUNTRIES. What's next, China putting out arrest warrents for individual Americans because they criticized communism, and the corresponding Wikipedia article implying that China has a right to do that? This section definitely needs work, as it's written from a very British-centric (dare I say imperialist?) POV. Stonemason89 (talk) 00:37, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

"Jamaica is a parliamentary democracy and constitutional monarchy with the monarch being represented by a Governor-General. The head of state is Queen Elizabeth II, who officially uses the title "Queen of Jamaica" when she visits the country or performs duties overseas on Jamaica's behalf."

So no, Jamaica isn't entirely a sovereign nation.

And I think you'll find that the arrest warrant is for when Elephant Man sets foot in the UK. I think you'll find the US has done the same thing numerous times over various matters. --Panzer71 (talk) 17:38, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

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